Religion

#1

Why do people claim to be so religious but yet they don't know God? Its not the words or your knowledge that dictate his blessings but more or less your walk that dictate his patients. I think alot of us have the knowledge and even know the "word" but aren't walking like he wants us to.....

Lost Ghost · #2

I dont understand your question.

#3

QUOTEWhy do people claim to be so religious but yet they don't know God? Its not the words or your knowledge that dictate his blessings but more or less your walk that dictate his patients. I think alot of us have the knowledge and even know the "word" but aren't walking like he wants us to.....

People claim to be religious for several reasons.

1. to feel better about their own guilt.
2. to fit in, or decieve people.
3. they are afraid of death.

In general, I avoid those who claim to be religious, and seem to be better off for it.

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I disasgree with you second statement. It is, to me, PRECISELY the words and knowledge that dictate blessings and divine providence. The walk is an assuption of the power of those words and that knowledge. Anyone can "act" like a Christian is "supposed to", for your example, few can THINK LIKE ONE, OR UNDERSTAND WHAT THE DOCTRINE REALLY SAYS. The discipline of right action is only important in as much as you understand it as an instruction, not just a way to avoid sinning, and going to teh 4311!!!

For example, when Jeshua walked into the field pulled sweet corn from the stalk and ate it without cleaning it, cooking it, or even washing his hands and face.

what was his reason for that?

He was going to a place where Dagon was worshipped, remember? Well, you know what the Hebrew word for corn is? Dagon.

Cornfields where were the sun was worshipped for giving the corn. So the chants to Dagon were chants to the sun god, who gives man bountiful crops.

and while Jeshua was among them, he ate in the field, and did not offend them with the rituals of cleanliness required of a Jew.

it was a EXAMPLE of TRUE RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE for the people who lived in the lands he visited. It was for that reason he was welcome when none of the others claiming to be messiah had been allowed to enter.

and very few Bibles, ministers, or even Rabbis would go so far as to puff the cigar and swig the rum in a houdoun ceremony when down in Louisiana.

but Jeshua would.

His change was brought about through integration and instruction, not oppression and forced education.

It was Saul of Tarsus, called Paul, who actively sought conversion of heretics (likely out of guilt for his own prosecution of Christians), and hoped to martyr himself for his cause.

#4

^^^ I totally agree with everything Raum has said.

#5

People claim to be religious for several reasons.

1. to feel better about their own guilt.
2. to fit in, or decieve people.
3. they are afraid of death.

Best and most logical reasoning I've ever heard....

Lost Ghost · #6

You can say that again Ty.....about raum....who can post that in every forum that exsists...... I think that might even go in my AIM profile....if for nothing else....to stir some shit up lol.

Always a pleasure to read your opinions and knowledge raumie.

#7

.theseeker wrote....Why do people claim to be so religious but yet they don't know God? Its not the words or your knowledge that dictate his blessings but more or less your walk that dictate his patients. I think a lot of us have the knowledge and even know the "word" but aren't walking like he wants us to.....

Very very true...From a christain point of view I think its true for for all christians on some level no matter how well they stick to the path..Its not really about knowing a bunch of rules and sticking to them. Its about allowing the holy spiret to make the changes in your character that god wants changed .Its like there†™‚¢‚¢¢¢¬…¡‚¬‚¢¢¢¬…¾

‚¢s a whole other person in you that god wants to introduce you to. Old interests and problem behavior start to loose there control over you It can be a very interesting time discovering new parts of your true self..But its a daily decision to reconnect to god and continue the journey. We all slip back a few steps from time to time but the only important thing is that you ounce again reach out to god and continue on..There will always be people who just talk the talk (we all do to some degree) but the way I see it if your talking that way maybe one day you will hear yourself talking and realize what your saying sounds good enough to try.

.raum wrote...In general, I avoid those who claim to be religious, and seem to be better off for it.
....How would you know wether there really religious or not without spending a good deal of time with them. Its not easy to know whats in some ones heart .And to say that some one who claims to be religious is not worth getting to know is a gigantic generalization. Judge them by there actions and character.

.raum wrote....The discipline of right action
.....I like the way you put that...I would say it is necessary to allow the work of the holy spirit to make changes Purposful sin puts the brakes on those changes.It slows the proses down but god forgives and if you seek with all your heart he takes you back and the prosses continues.

.raum wrote.....His change was brought about through integration and instruction, not oppression and forced education.
It was Saul of Tarsus, called Paul, who actively sought conversion of heretics (likely out of guilt for his own prosecution of Christians), and hoped to martyr himself for his cause.

........I would say he did it out of love but thats just me. Paul talks some place about how to preach to people in hopes of converting them. He said his job was to teach them about the message and if the holy spirit took hold than his job was done and the rest was up to god.If they weren†™‚¢‚¢¢¢¬…¡‚¬‚¢¢¢¬…¾

‚¢t interested than you move on. Personaly I believe becoming a true Christian has everything to do with your desire to want to walk that path. Theres not much sense in waisting time trying to force some one in that direction because it would be impossible to do .It would also have a negative impact on your own spiritual health

#8

QUOTE....How would you know wether there really religious or not without spending a good deal of time with them. Its not easy to know whats in some ones heart .And to say that some one who claims to be religious is not worth getting to know is a gigantic generalization. Judge them by there actions and character.

Just to let you know. I don't ask people what they believe. I honestly most people don't know until they face death and some not even then, and for my purposes it is unimportant. And in my veiw if someone speaks of what interests them, I can engage them. So for example, some one who speaks about a religion, which happens to be their religion is one thng. Someone who feels they have to tell me what their religion is fine. Someone who has to tell me they are "serious" about their religion is not only being judgemental, but also self-important. Did Jeshua ever say "I'm serious about being me!!!" Did Mosheh ever say "Yup, I am that REAL DEAL!" Did Mohammed ever say "yeah, I'm all about my religion. Did Lao Tzu ever say "yo I got he path of righteousness on lock!" nope. all the testimonies of these men show they exhibited conviction, but also the sincere debate existed within them regarding their fate.

I don't hang out with a lot of people. I am very active, and I have studied most religious Truths available to modern man without oathes of secrecy, and a few of those as well. I see no difference between the messages. its the people who run with the messages that seem to have the issue. I find in practice, I find those who TRULY have an importance of religion in their lives don't dwell on *their* way. Thus someone who speaks of the love of God is fine, someone who speaks fo the life of a prophet is fine. someone who uses a buzzword name for their beliefs is not nearly specific enough to know half of the references I bring up. They usually write me off as a "heretic" because they don't understand most of their own religion's origins and influences.

I do not consider myself better than them, just different in ways many of them can't approach, or refuse to.

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QUOTE.raum wrote....The discipline of right action
.....I like the way you put that...I would say it is necessary to allow the work of the holy spirit to make changes Purposful sin puts the brakes on those changes.It slows the proses down but god forgives and if you seek with all your heart he takes you back and the prosses continues.

You have no say in how the Agathodaimon (Holy Spirit) works upon you. It comes as a thief in the night, as a predator to the prey. People who think you "Let it in" often don't realize they are preventing it by actively desiring it, and emulating it before the Agathodaimon really communicates to them, which will forever leave you transformed.

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suffice to say, your views and my views of Saul of Tarsus, called Paul, differ. I wil not besmirch his name here, nor do I think he is grossly decieptful. I simply believe his importance was personally motivated, and not divinely appointed.

#9

....raum....suffice to say, your views and my views of Saul of Tarsus, called Paul, differ. I wil not besmirch his name here, nor do think he is grossly decieptful. I simply believe his importance was personally motivated, and not divinely appointed

....me.....so he's decieptful., but not grossly...motivated by guilt (according to your first post)...and not divinely appointed ..meaning what he says is not to be conciderd the word of god......Thanks for not besmirching he's name.

..raum.....For example, when Jeshua walked into the field pulled sweet corn from the stalk and ate it without cleaning it, cooking it, or even washing his hands and face.
..what was his reason for that?
He was going to a place where Dagon was worshipped, remember? Well, you know what the Hebrew word for corn is? Dagon.
Cornfields where were the sun was worshipped for giving the corn. So the chants to Dagon were chants to the sun god, who gives man bountiful crops.
..and while Jeshua was among them, he ate in the field, and did not offend them with the rituals of cleanliness required of a Jew.
it was a EXAMPLE of TRUE RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE for the people who lived in the lands he visited. It was for that reason he was welcome when none of the others claiming to be messiah had been allowed to enter.
...and very few Bibles, ministers, or even Rabbis would go so far as to puff the cigar and swig the rum in a houdoun ceremony when down in Louisiana.
but Jeshua would.
His change was brought about through integration and instruction, not oppression and forced education.
...................................................

...Tolerance....1..the capacity for or practice of recognizing and respecting the opinion practices or behavior of others..2. leeway for variation from a standerd.

...Questions..
....If this jewish man believed washing his food was nessasary to his beliefs wouldnt he be abandoning those beliefs by not following them.
....Before he entered into this situation he must have come to the conclution that washing the food was not nessasary to the spiret or intent of jewish law. The tolerance he was practicing was a tolerance for a slight change in his own beliefs laws.Jews had differant vesions of there beliefs back than that were more or less demanding in there laws.Some took it soo far as to strain the water they drank so they wouldnt drink a nat.
.....Was the entire field of corn conciderd sacred?.Usually only when crops or animals choosen for sacrifice are given to the preist and used in a ceremony do they become sacred.You say he pulled it from the stalk meaning it hadnt been used in such a way..
......Your saying he was a messiah who brought about change..isnt that the exact opposite of tolerating some one elses beliefs.
......If a preist were invited by a friend to join a religios ritual that that involed sum rum and a good cigar and he excepted... who would be showing tolerance ?.The preist would not be abandoning his beliefs.Hes just there to have a drink and enjoy the company.To him the cigar is a cigar and rum is just rum.and what ever chants they chant are just words. The group holding this ceremony are the ones showing toerance by alowing some one who doesnt share there beliefs to be among them during this ritual.

#10

......raum... I find those who TRULY have an importance of religion in their lives don't dwell on *their* way.
......me....Your opinion about whos beliefs are TRULY working or not working is just that.When you make that kind of a judgment youre saying some thing about your self as well.Thats not the type of thing you want to be doing on a regular basis.
......raum... Thus someone who speaks of the love of God is fine, someone who speaks fo the life of a prophet is fine. someone who uses a buzzword name for their beliefs is not nearly specific enough to know half of the references I bring up.

......me...I believe people should speak about what they know best or have experience with. Im not sure what buzzwords make you uncomfortable but your smart enough to know what these buzz words represent.If i speak of the holly spirit and how it effects me i would expect in this general type of disscution for a musslem to talk about something in there religion that effects them in the same way using there buzzwords.Would you prefere us to leave those areas blank so you can fill in what ever word makes you comfortable.Also im sorry we dont understand half of the references you bring up but why would you expect us to Its your job to try to speak to an issue in an understandable way.

...raum.... They usually write me off as a "heretic" because they don't understand most of their own religion's origins and influences.
..........me....The question is are you expecting them to alter there beliefs to fit yours..Ive said it before ..Your opinions of the origins and influences are just that..Theres to many variables in the mass of material to claim otherwise.Im sure there are many people such as yourself who like to read about the origens of religion.Do you all agree on who influinced who.When your all looking back at beliefs that happend long ago with not much left to go on do you think you can understand all the meanings of its teachings and do you all agree on what those meanings are.And lets be honest here.How many times on this site have you argued that the bible is full of gibberish and certan writers not worthy of respect.You cant tell me theres not just a bit of an agenda going on here.If the thrust of your interpretations suggest that large parts of what they believe isnt true what kind of responce would you expect.

....Heres a question...Do you believe it is nessasery to know every last detail of a religions teachings... origins ...and languge before you can have a full relationship with god.?If so thats a fundemental defference between you and our christian teachings.Its actually the opposite in that god guides you along at exactly the pace he sees fit to opening your eyes to a greater and greater understanding of him.He doesnt just decide the pace but the order in which you learn all that needs to be learned.The relationship comes before full knowedge.How else would the common man without acsses to large amounts of information ever hope to have god in there lives.Do only scholers get to know god ?

.....raum..You have no say in how the Agathodaimon (Holy Spirit) works upon you. It comes as a thief in the night, as a predator to the prey. People who think you "Let it in" often don't realize they are preventing it by actively desiring it, and emulating it before the Agathodaimon really communicates to them, which will forever leave you transformed.

.....me..I agree.....I cant see how i gave you the impresion that i have control over the holly spirit ( sorry your buzz word has too many letters) .You dont ask for the holly spirit like its some sort of a prize.After you have an understanding of the fundimentals you ask god to take control.Its about giving up control not gaining powers that you can manipulate.There are differant reasons why people seek god but in my case i simply became tired of trying to figure out my own life becouse i sucked at it.It took me a long time to get to that point but when i got there i was ready to ask honestly for him to take over.Than you wait...pataintly ..while you still seeking an undestanding of gods word .I never said i had control over the timing of the spirits arival or once it arives.. its intensity or the direction it leads you.What i did say was that once the spirit is in you sin can interupt its work.God never takes away your freedom of chooce and everyone falls short from tme to time.The spirit never leaves you but its work depends on your willingness to be molded by it..The transformation you speak of is not a completed work.It gives you the strength...insights.and.new desires along with many other things to move forward and evolve.The spirit starts the journey ..its not the finish line.This goes to the origanal question of this thread which asked..... how can some one have an understanding of god yet some times not be walking as fully in the way as he should be.