QUOTE(theseeker @ Jan 13 2007, 05:32 PM) I really don't know what to say, but what I do know is that yes, you may be smart and you may be intelligent but BRAINS you are not sir.....
who said I was?! me?! because I use "brains" as my nickname?!
haha. really not a single soul gets it the first time. I do not use that name because I think I am full of them. I use that name for people to remember they have brains as well, because... you know... I find these boards full of people who do not seem to use them... and if they do... it still is good they reflect on it. We are humans. We can think beyond our instincts... the persons in this age rarely seem to do so however.
QUOTEWhat we have done in Iraq is, was and will always be a necassary evil.
how's that sir?
how is this uncalled for war a necessary evil? what exactly was so urgent so that a country needed a shock and awe campaign against a dictator who was on a short string for the last decade?! Why was it so necessary to bring a country down to the point it is now, knowing that the vile person did most of its evil in the 80'ies - under the eye of the US, which was a trade-partner at the time?
I - again, it gets boring indeed - do not share that view, but I am willing to learn...
QUOTEI mean have we forgotten about his sons who were just as bad as him or worse and you were right mr. hussein did calm down over the years but his sons took the helm were he left off.
indeed. foul persons as well. but please point me to ONE story where one of these - or even Saddam himself - bloodied their hands... a story from AFTER 1992!
QUOTEyou remind me of one of those hippy protesters that sit outside walter reed and protest against the war but have never lifted a weapon to defend this country.
But my question is what have you done besides pay taxes and vote?
When have you put your life on the line for the greater good of humanity?
haha. your first really is a contradictio interminis, isn't it?! If I would be a treehugging peace-loving hippie, wouldn't it be strange that I'd lift weapons?! I mean... all that crap insinuating that you need to have handled a weapon before you are worthy. Please. I am from mainland Europe. We don't bear arms here. I have NEVER touched a gun and I am DAMN happy so. We do not have that "culture" here. We had it before my time. A few hundred years ago. We have fought our wars then - with two notable exceptions. Most of us here in Europe seem to agree: weapons, war... it leads you nowhere. Colonialism is behind us as well. We might be thinking: Grow up, US, you might one day agree.
QUOTE("tt")Try living in a nation where you have no say about what happens, how would you like that?
I AM living in a nation where I have no say about what happens, aren't you?! Yes... we can vote. Yes... we can say, write, tape... whatever we want, we can do an awful lot, but in reality we have no say about what happens. Did you have a say about 9/11 to put it to extremes? Did you have a say about not being able to carry more than 2 cups of beer on a street festival in SD, CA (which I found totally ridiculous). Do you have a say about the taxes you need to pay, about the price for bread, a doctor's visit or a gallon of oil? Do you have something to say about which country to attack next - or defend it?! No.
But well... I do get your point, but I have typed my reply to it down in the other post you reacted to.
QUOTEJust because this attack at the embassy was wrong and done by some terrorists, doesn't mean that people are fed up with America. I'm sure there are some terrorists who are just tired of waiting around for something bigger and hit some small stuff. This attack could be totally unrelated to our foreign policy, Iraq, or whatever shit you say it was related to
well... that will be the third time I mention it in this thread: IT DOES NOT SEEM TO BE SO IMMEDIATELY RELATED TO IRAQ, SINCE THE FIRST ATTACK ON THE US EMBASSY WAS BACK IN 1996!
and you are proving my point as well. You said that some "terrorists" (I called them "extremists") are tired and go to extremes. Some people are fed up. Not all.
oh and kramsie. I do not know why you bother posting in here anymore. You have proven time and again that you are nothing more than a troll, not to mention a dull one. You can deny it all you like, but it's the truth.
Rarely will you discuss an issue - let alone logically, and you constantly try to just make me sound ridiculous , such as by stating "I just read his posts and laugh." It must sound nice to you to be able to just troll in here, mock someone's opinion and get away with it just as easy.
I read your posts and just feel sorry.
US Embassy Hit With Grenade
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Buffmaster
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The Anti-American strikes again!
Big Red died 23 NOV 2001
You owe your success to your first wife. You owe your second wife to your success---Sean Connery
You owe your success to your first wife. You owe your second wife to your success---Sean Connery
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Bot
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raum
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[quote name='Brains' date='Jan 13 2007, 07:36 AM' post='163890']
you know the saying "what goes around, comes around", don't you?!
you know the saying "an eye for an eye..."?!
I can live with the first one, since it seems to be a law of nature. I do not adher to the second one. some do... you know that.[/quote]
I live by the saying "a head for an eye."
Brains, I do not think you support this, but I do think you make it very difficult to think that you do not believe the US has warranted this kind of response, from extreme individuals. What you never seem to get is the fact groups will simply attack us because they can, because WE EXIST. My point is The US has done nothing militarily against Greece EVER. And yet still some moron in Greece attacks our embassy. This is not like someone in El Salvador attacking an embassy... or someone in Iraq. This is somewhere we have never applied a military action, and yet still we are attacked. That is my point, the very fact we exist is going to piss certain people off. The other thing you do is humanize the enemy. That is stupid. Have you ever seen a cultist? Cultists are not attacking us because they want to protect their families, they are attacking us because we challenge their delusions of power. For as long as we have power that is evident, compared to their beliefs which are not, they feel we personally stand as an obstacle to their power. It is sheer idiocy, but it is so. I have spoken with people who were former members of groups labeled as terrorists, and they quickly outlined the fact that we consider these people sane is our biggest mistake.
"This is an army of ignorance, hope, and bombs pushed forward by a cold ambitious hand in hopes they will fail, which will drive the hatred of the people closer to the gates of the enemy."
Sakhet told me about his home. Iraqi Men came to town and said that American forces had invaded and killed even the women and children of a far off village, and were headed this way. They were rallied to fight against the Americans to protect the women and children, and the young men were forced into trucks. The men who fell off ran beside as long as they could.
He later found out that the Americans never attacked the village the men claimed they had, and the boys they took were never seen again. The rag-tag group of "defenders" were slaughtered when they attacked in Operation Desert Storm, and then he heard the stories of that village the young men were taken from being destroyed, and people were taken,.. etc. That is how these armies of "extreme individuals" were created. It is an ants nest that they stir up with a stick in hopes that everyone will eventually swarm up, and they honestly believe they can have religious control over that Chaos. Just like when things were turning around in Iraq, and then the Mosques started getting bombed, the whole damn country went to hell in two hours after the most important mosque of the Shia was destroyed. This was the CAVE that their LEADER disappeared into. It was like If someone attacked the cave jesus was put in. No Muslim could believe that another Muslim of any sect would do it. We were the only people left to blame, when we didn't know a damn thing about it. And the next time we make headway in Iraq, and things start looking up, the friggin Lebanon betrayal by Hezbollah happens. The whole area is far too connected by Islam for any outside force to drive that peace intitative easily. Because to them, the only thing that has to power to bring solidarity is Allah. It is religious laziness to expect God to do it all without a sincere and often difficult effort by the people.
It is an insult to people who truly seek peace to catagorize terrorism with these efforts. I know people who oppose the war in Iraq, who would not hesitate to tell you they hold the terrorists responsible.
[quote]again - while I am not backing these, while I AM condemning that approach - which target can somebody who is fed up with the States attack? An aircraft carrier?! A battalion of troopers?! A tank?!? Which IS a valid target then to make your point come accross using that stupid approach called aggression?![/quote]
A person who is fed up with the States does not have the right to have a viable target. Should we have to provide them one? There IS NO VALID target to "make your point come across." We suppress military supply, operation and encampment. We do not throw a tantrum because we are "fed up with terrorists." We kill them because they endanger ANYONE they seek to include in their plans for dominance through Chaos. If you expect me to feel pity because they don't have aircraft carriers too, you will not succeed.
Personally, I would be far more aggressive in Iraq. I would institute selective service, and draft. I would miltarize the people of Iraq, against the terrorists. Give them a sense of strength and hope not connected to sects or welfare. And if people rose up against the efforts to arm themselves, I would attack the whole nation as an enemy.
These people are being given far too much american blood to make their lands fertile. The landscape of the truly free countries of the world are dotted with the stories and tales of their heroes. Right now, the miltary history of iraq is either being saturated with names of Americans, or more likely swept up to not include the heroism of our volunteers.
---------------------
[quote]But... back to my first reply and to some of raum's comments... there was a mention of communism. The earlier attack back in 1996 seem to more point out that direction. And the whole chatter about Iraq might very well be completely off-topic.[/quote]
EXACTLY MY POINT! No one has even said why they did it, nor claimed responsibility. This honestly could be one former member of the resistance, who was cleaning out his garage, and said "an RPG?? wow, I thought we got rid of all of these!" and then he got drunk and went out and shot it at the building "for old times sake." Just because I started a forest fire with homemade explosives when I was 11 doesn't mean I hate trees... nor does it mean I had solidarity with anyone else.
The possibility of this being connected to Iraq is very slim. More likely connected to Lebanon, being that it was Greece. But it certainly has the feel (and equipment similarities) as the communist actions of the mid 90's designed to try and provoke the people to revolution.
raum. what do you mean with that "inaction did not work either"?!
[/quote]
I'm saying there are times where our hand was forced, and we did nothing, and it just enboldens the enemy.
raiding our embassy in Iran
ambushing our marines in Lebanon
stomping our allies in Kuwait
allowing North Korea to get nukes
not sending troops into Grenada
Iraq boming our embassy.
People will attack us until they defeat us, or until we let them know we will attack and kill without reservation anyone who attempts to defeat us. That is the solemn truth; When you are on top, someone else wants to be on top.
you know the saying "what goes around, comes around", don't you?!
you know the saying "an eye for an eye..."?!
I can live with the first one, since it seems to be a law of nature. I do not adher to the second one. some do... you know that.[/quote]
I live by the saying "a head for an eye."
Brains, I do not think you support this, but I do think you make it very difficult to think that you do not believe the US has warranted this kind of response, from extreme individuals. What you never seem to get is the fact groups will simply attack us because they can, because WE EXIST. My point is The US has done nothing militarily against Greece EVER. And yet still some moron in Greece attacks our embassy. This is not like someone in El Salvador attacking an embassy... or someone in Iraq. This is somewhere we have never applied a military action, and yet still we are attacked. That is my point, the very fact we exist is going to piss certain people off. The other thing you do is humanize the enemy. That is stupid. Have you ever seen a cultist? Cultists are not attacking us because they want to protect their families, they are attacking us because we challenge their delusions of power. For as long as we have power that is evident, compared to their beliefs which are not, they feel we personally stand as an obstacle to their power. It is sheer idiocy, but it is so. I have spoken with people who were former members of groups labeled as terrorists, and they quickly outlined the fact that we consider these people sane is our biggest mistake.
"This is an army of ignorance, hope, and bombs pushed forward by a cold ambitious hand in hopes they will fail, which will drive the hatred of the people closer to the gates of the enemy."
Sakhet told me about his home. Iraqi Men came to town and said that American forces had invaded and killed even the women and children of a far off village, and were headed this way. They were rallied to fight against the Americans to protect the women and children, and the young men were forced into trucks. The men who fell off ran beside as long as they could.
He later found out that the Americans never attacked the village the men claimed they had, and the boys they took were never seen again. The rag-tag group of "defenders" were slaughtered when they attacked in Operation Desert Storm, and then he heard the stories of that village the young men were taken from being destroyed, and people were taken,.. etc. That is how these armies of "extreme individuals" were created. It is an ants nest that they stir up with a stick in hopes that everyone will eventually swarm up, and they honestly believe they can have religious control over that Chaos. Just like when things were turning around in Iraq, and then the Mosques started getting bombed, the whole damn country went to hell in two hours after the most important mosque of the Shia was destroyed. This was the CAVE that their LEADER disappeared into. It was like If someone attacked the cave jesus was put in. No Muslim could believe that another Muslim of any sect would do it. We were the only people left to blame, when we didn't know a damn thing about it. And the next time we make headway in Iraq, and things start looking up, the friggin Lebanon betrayal by Hezbollah happens. The whole area is far too connected by Islam for any outside force to drive that peace intitative easily. Because to them, the only thing that has to power to bring solidarity is Allah. It is religious laziness to expect God to do it all without a sincere and often difficult effort by the people.
It is an insult to people who truly seek peace to catagorize terrorism with these efforts. I know people who oppose the war in Iraq, who would not hesitate to tell you they hold the terrorists responsible.
[quote]again - while I am not backing these, while I AM condemning that approach - which target can somebody who is fed up with the States attack? An aircraft carrier?! A battalion of troopers?! A tank?!? Which IS a valid target then to make your point come accross using that stupid approach called aggression?![/quote]
A person who is fed up with the States does not have the right to have a viable target. Should we have to provide them one? There IS NO VALID target to "make your point come across." We suppress military supply, operation and encampment. We do not throw a tantrum because we are "fed up with terrorists." We kill them because they endanger ANYONE they seek to include in their plans for dominance through Chaos. If you expect me to feel pity because they don't have aircraft carriers too, you will not succeed.
Personally, I would be far more aggressive in Iraq. I would institute selective service, and draft. I would miltarize the people of Iraq, against the terrorists. Give them a sense of strength and hope not connected to sects or welfare. And if people rose up against the efforts to arm themselves, I would attack the whole nation as an enemy.
These people are being given far too much american blood to make their lands fertile. The landscape of the truly free countries of the world are dotted with the stories and tales of their heroes. Right now, the miltary history of iraq is either being saturated with names of Americans, or more likely swept up to not include the heroism of our volunteers.
---------------------
[quote]But... back to my first reply and to some of raum's comments... there was a mention of communism. The earlier attack back in 1996 seem to more point out that direction. And the whole chatter about Iraq might very well be completely off-topic.[/quote]
EXACTLY MY POINT! No one has even said why they did it, nor claimed responsibility. This honestly could be one former member of the resistance, who was cleaning out his garage, and said "an RPG?? wow, I thought we got rid of all of these!" and then he got drunk and went out and shot it at the building "for old times sake." Just because I started a forest fire with homemade explosives when I was 11 doesn't mean I hate trees... nor does it mean I had solidarity with anyone else.
The possibility of this being connected to Iraq is very slim. More likely connected to Lebanon, being that it was Greece. But it certainly has the feel (and equipment similarities) as the communist actions of the mid 90's designed to try and provoke the people to revolution.
raum. what do you mean with that "inaction did not work either"?!
[/quote]
I'm saying there are times where our hand was forced, and we did nothing, and it just enboldens the enemy.
raiding our embassy in Iran
ambushing our marines in Lebanon
stomping our allies in Kuwait
allowing North Korea to get nukes
not sending troops into Grenada
Iraq boming our embassy.
People will attack us until they defeat us, or until we let them know we will attack and kill without reservation anyone who attempts to defeat us. That is the solemn truth; When you are on top, someone else wants to be on top.
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highlife
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Raum.....Cultists are not attacking us because they want to protect their families, they are attacking us because we challenge their delusions of power. For as long as we have power that is evident, compared to their beliefs which are not, they feel we personally stand as an obstacle to their power. It is sheer idiocy, but it is so. I have spoken with people who were former members of groups labeled as terrorists, and they quickly outlined the fact that we consider these people sane is our biggest mistake.
me......I would agree but only if your talking about the guy packing the bomb. The leaders and teachers of these people I believe are smarter. They turn us into the enemy becouse these groups always need some one to hate.There goal is to control the middle east but they cant convince people to attack there own people so they creat hatred for the US and Isrial and use that to recruit. Once they have a big enough base they can start pushing there followers to attack arab govornments.I think there leaders just use us and our responce to them to recruit more and more people.Also i think you cant forget the influince of the seemingly rational people who arent fighting but who sympathise with the extreamists. Those are the ones you need to win over and military options can hurt us as much as help with them.
Raum.....No Muslim could believe that another Muslim of any sect would do it. We were the only people left to blame, when we didn't know a damn thing about it.
me......In refrence to that Mosque being blown up i thought the insurgants or alquida did that to get the sunies and sheaits fighting. I think it worked
Raum.......The whole area is far too connected by Islam for any outside force to drive that peace intitative easily. Because to them, the only thing that has to power to bring solidarity is Allah.
me......So how the hell do we win here.Talking about terrorists... if you attack them they run away to fight again and call that a victory. If you do nothing you embolden them to to do more. Actually since there recruitment depends on chaos i would say they attack out of dessperation. They creat chaos and than provide housing and medecine for the wounded as if there helping these victems. Some times it seems more like were playing there game. AS you put it "dominance through Chaos "
Raum.....Personally, I would be far more aggressive in Iraq. I would institute selective service, and draft.
me............thats some thing i havn't heard talked about....interesting. I think its there war to win or lose. If they dont get there act together we cant win this thing.
Raum....... And if people rose up against the efforts to arm themselves, I would attack the whole nation as an enemy.
me.......I think were already doing that. Flatening the country would give us enimies for the next hundred years.
.
me......I would agree but only if your talking about the guy packing the bomb. The leaders and teachers of these people I believe are smarter. They turn us into the enemy becouse these groups always need some one to hate.There goal is to control the middle east but they cant convince people to attack there own people so they creat hatred for the US and Isrial and use that to recruit. Once they have a big enough base they can start pushing there followers to attack arab govornments.I think there leaders just use us and our responce to them to recruit more and more people.Also i think you cant forget the influince of the seemingly rational people who arent fighting but who sympathise with the extreamists. Those are the ones you need to win over and military options can hurt us as much as help with them.
Raum.....No Muslim could believe that another Muslim of any sect would do it. We were the only people left to blame, when we didn't know a damn thing about it.
me......In refrence to that Mosque being blown up i thought the insurgants or alquida did that to get the sunies and sheaits fighting. I think it worked
Raum.......The whole area is far too connected by Islam for any outside force to drive that peace intitative easily. Because to them, the only thing that has to power to bring solidarity is Allah.
me......So how the hell do we win here.Talking about terrorists... if you attack them they run away to fight again and call that a victory. If you do nothing you embolden them to to do more. Actually since there recruitment depends on chaos i would say they attack out of dessperation. They creat chaos and than provide housing and medecine for the wounded as if there helping these victems. Some times it seems more like were playing there game. AS you put it "dominance through Chaos "
Raum.....Personally, I would be far more aggressive in Iraq. I would institute selective service, and draft.
me............thats some thing i havn't heard talked about....interesting. I think its there war to win or lose. If they dont get there act together we cant win this thing.
Raum....... And if people rose up against the efforts to arm themselves, I would attack the whole nation as an enemy.
me.......I think were already doing that. Flatening the country would give us enimies for the next hundred years.
.
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Brains
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QUOTE(raum @ Jan 15 2007, 04:14 PM) What you never seem to get is the fact groups will simply attack us because they can, because WE EXIST.
that is something I have heard already.... from your government. They want to make it sound like the only reason you guys are in trouble now, is only because you exist. That is a lie. People (the "terrorists", if you will) have other motivators and they are given more with each passing day. It is NOT because "you exist", it is (more) because your international policy stinks.
QUOTEMy point is The US has done nothing militarily against Greece EVER.
Taken word for word, you are correct. You have not done anything militarily. You DID support a coup there back in the 70'ies and this attack seems to stem from that, additionally fueled by what you did in Iraq. The latter has only expanded the view of the United States as belligerent in the eyes of many Greeks living in Greece. (source).
QUOTEThe other thing you do is humanize the enemy. That is stupid.
I think it is stupid you do NOT consider these guys human! By every definition they are. They have a different opinion, different values maybe - although I am enclined to think that a lot of them would like to see their wife and kids grow up peacefully much like us as well, but they sure as hell are human beings like you and I. That means they can be talked to. There can be negotiations... alas.
QUOTEJust like when things were turning around in Iraq, and then the Mosques started getting bombed, the whole damn country went to hell in two hours after the most important mosque of the Shia was destroyed.
How about you start with the obvious fact that you did not have a post-war plan? How about you start with the first orders the CPA gave in Iraq? "Debaathification", "disbanding the army". Debaathification sounds awfully undemocratic. If there are Baathists in Iraq, they should be able to represent themselves, while disbanding the army turned a few hundred thousand armed Iraqis into unemployment. THESE were the first steps on the road to chaos.
QUOTEA person who is fed up with the States does not have the right to have a viable target.
I agree, but find the US guilty as well.... read on.
QUOTEThere IS NO VALID target to "make your point come across." We suppress military supply, operation and encampment. We do not throw a tantrum because we are "fed up with terrorists."
Glad you think so. A shame the Bush administration does not. I would not be surprised at all that in the months leading towards that illegal war, Bush used the very same words: "we are fed up with Saddam", thus we go in. That does not make Iraq a valid target.
QUOTEPersonally, I would be far more aggressive in Iraq. I would institute selective service, and draft. I would miltarize the people of Iraq, against the terrorists. Give them a sense of strength and hope not connected to sects or welfare. And if people rose up against the efforts to arm themselves, I would attack the whole nation as an enemy.
that is what you have always been doing, no?! "Military", "suppress", "fight them down". You already ARE being overly aggressive in Iraq, while increasing troop levels is another testament of the exact same strategy. Bush promised a completely new approach. Seems like he flip-flopped. What he said is NOT totally new, it is what he always has been doing there. How about a REAL new approach ffs. Two weeks ago, I had some hope that indeed he would change... alas again.
QUOTEI'm saying there are times where our hand was forced, and we did nothing, and it just enboldens the enemy.
strange conclusion you draw.
QUOTEPeople will attack us until they defeat us, or until we let them know we will attack and kill without reservation anyone who attempts to defeat us.
it is what you have been doing and it does not work.
that is something I have heard already.... from your government. They want to make it sound like the only reason you guys are in trouble now, is only because you exist. That is a lie. People (the "terrorists", if you will) have other motivators and they are given more with each passing day. It is NOT because "you exist", it is (more) because your international policy stinks.
QUOTEMy point is The US has done nothing militarily against Greece EVER.
Taken word for word, you are correct. You have not done anything militarily. You DID support a coup there back in the 70'ies and this attack seems to stem from that, additionally fueled by what you did in Iraq. The latter has only expanded the view of the United States as belligerent in the eyes of many Greeks living in Greece. (source).
QUOTEThe other thing you do is humanize the enemy. That is stupid.
I think it is stupid you do NOT consider these guys human! By every definition they are. They have a different opinion, different values maybe - although I am enclined to think that a lot of them would like to see their wife and kids grow up peacefully much like us as well, but they sure as hell are human beings like you and I. That means they can be talked to. There can be negotiations... alas.
QUOTEJust like when things were turning around in Iraq, and then the Mosques started getting bombed, the whole damn country went to hell in two hours after the most important mosque of the Shia was destroyed.
How about you start with the obvious fact that you did not have a post-war plan? How about you start with the first orders the CPA gave in Iraq? "Debaathification", "disbanding the army". Debaathification sounds awfully undemocratic. If there are Baathists in Iraq, they should be able to represent themselves, while disbanding the army turned a few hundred thousand armed Iraqis into unemployment. THESE were the first steps on the road to chaos.
QUOTEA person who is fed up with the States does not have the right to have a viable target.
I agree, but find the US guilty as well.... read on.
QUOTEThere IS NO VALID target to "make your point come across." We suppress military supply, operation and encampment. We do not throw a tantrum because we are "fed up with terrorists."
Glad you think so. A shame the Bush administration does not. I would not be surprised at all that in the months leading towards that illegal war, Bush used the very same words: "we are fed up with Saddam", thus we go in. That does not make Iraq a valid target.
QUOTEPersonally, I would be far more aggressive in Iraq. I would institute selective service, and draft. I would miltarize the people of Iraq, against the terrorists. Give them a sense of strength and hope not connected to sects or welfare. And if people rose up against the efforts to arm themselves, I would attack the whole nation as an enemy.
that is what you have always been doing, no?! "Military", "suppress", "fight them down". You already ARE being overly aggressive in Iraq, while increasing troop levels is another testament of the exact same strategy. Bush promised a completely new approach. Seems like he flip-flopped. What he said is NOT totally new, it is what he always has been doing there. How about a REAL new approach ffs. Two weeks ago, I had some hope that indeed he would change... alas again.
QUOTEI'm saying there are times where our hand was forced, and we did nothing, and it just enboldens the enemy.
strange conclusion you draw.
QUOTEPeople will attack us until they defeat us, or until we let them know we will attack and kill without reservation anyone who attempts to defeat us.
it is what you have been doing and it does not work.
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raum
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QUOTE(highlife @ Jan 15 2007, 08:26 PM) me......I would agree but only if your talking about the guy packing the bomb. The leaders and teachers of these people I believe are smarter.
On all counts, yes. But being more crafty doesn't mae them more sane.
QUOTESo how the hell do we win here.Talking about terrorists...
In Greece, we help the police figure it out. In Iraq, we get these people fighting for their own right to democracy.
QUOTERaum.....Personally, I would be far more aggressive in Iraq. I would institute selective service, and draft.
By the way, I meant the draft of Iraqi military forces, not the draft of Americans. "It's their war", and if they don't learn how to fight, they will be welcoming their Persian or Syrian overlords in a decade, if it takes that long. Every democracy has provision for the mobilization of the militia of the young men in time of need.
QUOTERaum....... And if people rose up against the efforts to arm themselves, I would attack the whole nation as an enemy.
This meaning if the new military forces we train from the draft turn on us... not if an old woman throws lettuce or something.
QUOTEme.......I think were already doing that. Flatening the country would give us enimies for the next hundred years.
Rest assured, we have that taken care of, as long as we are a sovereign nation.
On all counts, yes. But being more crafty doesn't mae them more sane.
QUOTESo how the hell do we win here.Talking about terrorists...
In Greece, we help the police figure it out. In Iraq, we get these people fighting for their own right to democracy.
QUOTERaum.....Personally, I would be far more aggressive in Iraq. I would institute selective service, and draft.
By the way, I meant the draft of Iraqi military forces, not the draft of Americans. "It's their war", and if they don't learn how to fight, they will be welcoming their Persian or Syrian overlords in a decade, if it takes that long. Every democracy has provision for the mobilization of the militia of the young men in time of need.
QUOTERaum....... And if people rose up against the efforts to arm themselves, I would attack the whole nation as an enemy.
This meaning if the new military forces we train from the draft turn on us... not if an old woman throws lettuce or something.
QUOTEme.......I think were already doing that. Flatening the country would give us enimies for the next hundred years.
Rest assured, we have that taken care of, as long as we are a sovereign nation.
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highlife
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Raum.....By the way, I meant the draft of Iraqi military forces, not the draft of Americans. "It's their war", and if they don't learn how to fight, they will be welcoming their Persian or Syrian overlords in a decade, if it takes that long. Every democracy has provision for the mobilization of the militia of the young men in time of need.
me......I understood that which is why i said it was interesting. I havn't heard any polititions mention that. If I thought you ment us I would have said you were nuts. If bush suggested that for us he would lose whatever support he has left. Also i agree.its there war and that bush better start reminding them of that every day
Raum....... And if people rose up against the efforts to arm themselves, I would attack the whole nation as an enemy.
This meaning if the new military forces we train from the draft turn on us... not if an old woman throws lettuce or something
.
me.....Here I did misunderstand you. If the Iraq's ever get a solid footing in a military way i dought they would ever risk turning on us in the near future. If you think about it defeating a real army is what we do better than any one. It would be easy compared to this shoot than melt back into the population stuff...
Lettuce is OK but if she picks up a potatoe than all bets are off... Those can hurt.
me.......I think were already doing that. Flatening the country would give us enimies for the next hundred years.
Raum....Rest assured, we have that taken care of, as long as we are a sovereign nation.
me.....Assurances don't cut it any more. I want to see some deplomacy. I want some recognition that this is more about extreamist's and monarchies vs moderate arabs who want to be part of the world than it is about us vs terrorists. I would like to see our impact over there , which is large, be based on helping the moderates and not on keeping oil prices low and monarchies happy. I want some one to think about how military action effects the average arabs sympathies for the defferant leaders and exactly which way were pushing them. And finally about wether for every terrorist we say were fighting in Iraq if were not creating 5 more world wide becouse of our aproach..
Brain.......I think it is stupid you do NOT consider these guys human! By every definition they are. They have a different opinion, different values maybe - although I am enclined to think that a lot of them would like to see their wife and kids grow up peacefully much like us as well, but they sure as hell are human beings like you and I. That means they can be talked to. There can be negotiations... alas.
me..... I think you have to except that there is a certain element here thats interested in power and doesnt care how much pain they inflict. The leaders arent doing it becouse they want happy homes there doing becouse they see it as a means to an end. If the goal here was peace and security they could get that when ever they wanted. Just stop fighting. Its true they would lose there leadership positions or there funding from Iran but wouldnt the result be peace and a more stable eviornment. If you were to define what they want what would that be. What is it that they want that could not be gotten through peaceful means. You dont think that if these people wanted peace we wouldnt bend over backwards to cut some sort of deal.
me......I understood that which is why i said it was interesting. I havn't heard any polititions mention that. If I thought you ment us I would have said you were nuts. If bush suggested that for us he would lose whatever support he has left. Also i agree.its there war and that bush better start reminding them of that every day
Raum....... And if people rose up against the efforts to arm themselves, I would attack the whole nation as an enemy.
This meaning if the new military forces we train from the draft turn on us... not if an old woman throws lettuce or something
.
me.....Here I did misunderstand you. If the Iraq's ever get a solid footing in a military way i dought they would ever risk turning on us in the near future. If you think about it defeating a real army is what we do better than any one. It would be easy compared to this shoot than melt back into the population stuff...
Lettuce is OK but if she picks up a potatoe than all bets are off... Those can hurt.
me.......I think were already doing that. Flatening the country would give us enimies for the next hundred years.
Raum....Rest assured, we have that taken care of, as long as we are a sovereign nation.
me.....Assurances don't cut it any more. I want to see some deplomacy. I want some recognition that this is more about extreamist's and monarchies vs moderate arabs who want to be part of the world than it is about us vs terrorists. I would like to see our impact over there , which is large, be based on helping the moderates and not on keeping oil prices low and monarchies happy. I want some one to think about how military action effects the average arabs sympathies for the defferant leaders and exactly which way were pushing them. And finally about wether for every terrorist we say were fighting in Iraq if were not creating 5 more world wide becouse of our aproach..
Brain.......I think it is stupid you do NOT consider these guys human! By every definition they are. They have a different opinion, different values maybe - although I am enclined to think that a lot of them would like to see their wife and kids grow up peacefully much like us as well, but they sure as hell are human beings like you and I. That means they can be talked to. There can be negotiations... alas.
me..... I think you have to except that there is a certain element here thats interested in power and doesnt care how much pain they inflict. The leaders arent doing it becouse they want happy homes there doing becouse they see it as a means to an end. If the goal here was peace and security they could get that when ever they wanted. Just stop fighting. Its true they would lose there leadership positions or there funding from Iran but wouldnt the result be peace and a more stable eviornment. If you were to define what they want what would that be. What is it that they want that could not be gotten through peaceful means. You dont think that if these people wanted peace we wouldnt bend over backwards to cut some sort of deal.
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