Habib wrote:erokero85, you have 3 stats there. Who is the 3rd one for?
3 Random career stat lines to show the difficulty of using them as a basis for comparison. I'd actually like to see how everyone would rate these players from just these stats. All 3 are active players, as of the 08-09 season. While they are very similar, I'd bet everyone would rank them in the same order by name, while have different thoughts on stats alone.
Nice one. However, the duration of how long you have played in the NBA plays an important role -- if you have played longer there has been more margin for error, etc. If you have only spent like 5 years it is not the same as someone who has spent 10 years and average something slightly less, etc, you get the point.
But from these stats, I will rank it like this, from best to worst: c, b, a
I would go in that order too, although there are some other factors that I consider personally when I do comparisons...More specifically, 15 points in a win will beat 25 in a loss any day...If you're on a team with Dennis Rodman, you average 3 boards a game...That don't mean you can't board...Rodman might have 10 points at the end of the day, but if you consider that all 10 of those came from offensive rebounds, them 10 points look good as hell...
Kobe and MJ, man they are the same height...Same weight...Shit, they even walk and talk alike if you ask me...But, as off topic as I've been in this thread, I don't see a reason to think that Kobe will be unable to win at least 2 more championships...I see 3, given that he's only 30 and has at least 3 more prime years left in him...Kobe has played a lot of basketball these past couple of years, this is his first summer being able to rest up to the upcoming season...He might set the league on fire next year...
No, MJ was heavier by 4.5 kilograms. This is the reason why I even prefer watching Kobe Bryant. Because of he is lighter, when he is playing it looks more finesse, and when he fades away to shoot in the air it looks so nice because of it is like he is "floating" in the air lol.
Kumicho wrote:Kobe has played a lot of basketball these past couple of years, this is his first summer being able to rest up to the upcoming season
Sooooooooooooooooo true Ayhja. For the past 3 years he has not had a break, playing all 82 regular season games, All-Star, playoffs, and then he was in Beijing this last summer after they lost to Boston. This is the first time he has had time to rest.
Kumicho wrote:I would go in that order too, although there are some other factors that I consider personally when I do comparisons...More specifically, 15 points in a win will beat 25 in a loss any day...If you're on a team with Dennis Rodman, you average 3 boards a game...That don't mean you can't board...Rodman might have 10 points at the end of the day, but if you consider that all 10 of those came from offensive rebounds, them 10 points look good as hell...
That was kinda my point. Someone pointed out Kobe's assists per game as proof he passes/gets teammates involved. He does, but like I said, too often it seems like he passes out of spite for the media and to stubbornly prove a point, rather than good game management.
C) Kobe Bryant
B) Stephon Marbury
A) Steve Nash
And if you take out the last 3 years where Starbury stole paychecks, his numbers actually rival Kobe's. But as a player, I'd be laughed at if I said he's anywhere near the other two.
I'd say Kobe get's at least one more, but I'd be hard pressed to say 3. I just don't trust Odom (if he returns) or Bynum that much, and with the swap of Artest for Ariza, the team just got that much older. Plus since Phil got ring #10, and due to his health issues, who knows how much longer he'll coach.
Bro, we just compared Kobe to 2 point guards and his numbers still rocked...By nature, it is the PG's job to spread the ball around and get other's involved, not the 2's...He's supposed to score and create, and he does that as well as anyone...And to do that in the triangle offense is more impressive...In the Bulls runs, it was Scottie, not MJ, who took that role...
erokero85 wrote:I'd say Kobe get's at least one more, but I'd be hard pressed to say 3.
Remember, Kobe Bryant does not need 3 more to catch up with Michael Jordan, he needs 2 more, which is very possible.
True, but Kumicho said "at least 2... I see 3..." My point was, he's so good he gets at least one. I just think it will be very hard to get more than one. Not that he can't or wont.
Kumicho wrote:Bro, we just compared Kobe to 2 point guards and his numbers still rocked...By nature, it is the PG's job to spread the ball around and get other's involved, not the 2's...He's supposed to score and create, and he does that as well as anyone...And to do that in the triangle offense is more impressive...In the Bulls runs, it was Scottie, not MJ, who took that role...
That was not the point either. The point was, I'd rather use what I see in a game, rather than just a stat sheet. Marbury has a very good to great stat line, but is hardly an elite player.
And why does it feel like you guys think I'm hating on Kobe? Do I like the guy? No. But I think he's by far the best player now and if I had to start a team, I'd pick him first every time. I've said many times that he and Jordan are on a level all alone. Just the two of them.
Nah, I don't think that you're hating on Kobe..! As far as I know, we are just having a good, if not great discussion with relevant points being made on both sides...I don't know about Habib, but I'm just debating/discussing... :)
I wish there was a stat that could show how many times someone could have gotten an assist if the player on the receiving end had completed the play...That might make this more of a discussion...
I was merely pointing out that Kobe gets a knock as being a selfish player, but he has good numbers...We don't hear those things about MJ, but truth be told, he did many of the same things...He wouldn't pass the ball in critical moments either...But for some reason, it was OK for him to do, or well, wasn't looked at as a negative thing, but Kobe had that bad earlier in this career...Now, you can't hear Kobe's named being mentioned without someone calling him, ''The best closer in the game" and all that shit...Now, when Kobe passes the ball at the end of a game and Derek Fisher misses the game winning shot, everyone is saying, "I don't know, if I'm Phil Jackson, I want the ball in Kobe's hands..."
Just seems to me that media slants give people all these ideas about players that become popular...And that's not to say that they're not true, I'm just saying...I've watched both players extensively...Their games are scary similar...When I hear Kobe's not a leader, or he won't pass the ball, I'm left a little bewildered because I'm always watching the games...
I hear often that Kobe's a ballhawk, doesn't make his team better...He's a career 19 FGA per game, with a personal high 27.2 p/g while shooting 45% from the field...MJ is a career 23 FGA p/g, with a personal high of 27.8 p/g while shooting 48% from the field...In those years, the Laker's struggled to get over .500 and got put out of the first round...Those Bulls were under .500, and got put out of the first round...If you look at those rosters, there's no doubt that these teams would be less than horrible without these players...So, more than say hating, I'm just trying to see what you mean when you say:
Jordan made everyone of his teammates better. He had an almost pointguard like feel for games and teammates.
Also, in the years I compared earlier, Kobe averaged 4.5 assists per game...MJ averaged 4.6...Bascially, MJ shot more, and passed less...And he was 12 for 66 from behind the arc that year, which means he was murdering his opponents slashing and driving, living at the line...Just looking at the facts, who was the better player..? You put Kobe on a team full of scrubs and ask him to win, he goes 45-37 and loses a first round playoff series 4-3...You put MJ on a team of scrubs and tell him to win, he goes 40-42 and is swept out of the first round...
So, if we're not going to use stats to substantiate our points of view, aren't they in fact bias..? And for all that sidekick talk, the number of championships MJ won without Scottie vs Number of Championships Kobe won without Shaq is now slanted in the favor of one player...I will say this...Even with and old and nearly cripple MJ in the lineuep, the Wizards did win 18 more games than the did the year before to get to 37 wins...
Just sayin' bro..."Hating" is a strong word...Maybe we can go with slanted subjectivity..? :D People just like MJ more than Kobe...Man, I so get that..! Like I said, I'm a native Chicagoan...I realize I could be stoned for even having this discussion...But from a pure, open, objective point of view as a fan of the game, its hard to argue with facts...
A level all alone..? Yeah, I'll drink to that... :dance:
Lol nice video Ayhja, and of course that was an exemplary analysis you just gave. People like you should sit next to Ernie Johnson, Kenny Smith, Charles Barkley, Steve Smith, Rick Kamla and those guys to give strong points like these.
By the way, in comparing these 2 videos, lol Kobe's way better than Michael Jordans. MJ just did his own to be/look cool -- there was nothing to obstruct him from slam dunking that basketball and hence no reason to switch the hand in the air.
Kobe Bryant actually did it for a reason because of there was the Defensive Player of the Year (7 foot) and Hedo Turkoglu (6'10") standing on the way.
