T.O. thinks Goodell 'unfair' to Vick

[Drew]

Wow dude, I can't believe the shit I am reading...like I honestly do not believe that you really subscribe to the things you are saying.

First off, how fucking DARE you criticize someone and bring up how few charities they have and how much they donate. How many charities have you created? How much money have you given to charity? I have a feeling it isn't close to 180,000. Even if it is close, who gives you the right to talk down on someone for ever giving money to charity, regardless how much it is? Seriously, who died and made you king of the fucking world and allowed you to speak poorly on someone who has created charities.

Do you think being charitable is something these players sign when they get an NFL contract? Anything anyone gives to charity should be considered an incredible act of humanitarianism. Like seriously, either you are some ignorant prick, or you really hate Vick. But neither are excuses for trying to call the dude selfish for doing some of the most unselfish things you can do, creating and/or donating to charity. Un-fucking-real.

And you follow that up by saying he's a piece of shit for owing people money? Dude, its almost cute that you care so much about this guy to look up all his financial history to prove he's a bad guy....but I'm not buying it. You think he went into debt on purpose? Maybe losing millions in endorsements and going to jail and losing his income had something to do with that.

I don't even understand your point at all. He has no respect for anyone because he owes people money? The man has been unemployed and had no means to get money for 2 years....I think its almost assumed he'd own people money. Wait, wait...if that's not enough...he's really a bad person because he gives to charity and creates charities....but guys...it's not up to jdog's standards....so instead of thinking that's a selfless thing to do....let's all label him an asshole!

As to your answer of who would want Vick, you clearly don't watch the NFL, because there are a lot of teams who line up starting QB's that are worse than Michael Vick is RIGHT NOW. The only reason a lot of teams don't want him, is because of the group of assholes like you who hate him for any reason you can think of...and will probably protest the team's front office and stadium. Aside from the P.R. problem, a lot of teams could use him.


The more you talk, the more I think you have some strange obsession with hating him for no good reason. Someone wearing a Vick jersey beat you up years ago or something? Like I don't get it. Not liking him for the dog thing is okay. But calling him a low life over and over again because the dude doesn't donate enough to charity or only has two charities....or maybe because he owes people money after having his life essentially taken away for two years is just plain ridiculous.

[AYHJA]

Actually J, I get what you're saying, I mean, I know that Pits aren't born that way, but those dogs were already in the mix...

All in all, I mean...Like I said...It's just a dog...If you run over a dog on the highway, you don't pull to the side of the road and call the police so they can fill out a report and get the dog to the coroner...It's an animal...And no, they definitely shouldn't be killed for recreation or in that manner...But, its still just a dog...I just think, for all that its worth...The crimes, the lying...Dude did a year in jail...There are people, as I mentioned, that have done far worse and got away easier...

NFL players have the highest average number of years spent in college

No doubt...If you could go to the NFL from high school though, I bet that number would be lower than a turtle's stomach..And I didn't call them dumb, I said they're not the smartest mofos...And not just academically...Like I said, that shit requires radical transformation...Not Clark Kent to Superman, we're talking old Mr. Wittle down at the pharmacy turning into some shit that would make Van Helsing run for cover...Motherfuckers that push themselves to the hardest physical limits possible, have a kill or be killed mentality, and then are expected to put on a suit and 'be normal'...We talking, 'Hey Drew, lets go out in the yard and you let me hit you as hard as I can, as many times as I can, and we come back in the house and be friends still,' type shit...

[jdog]

First off, how fucking DARE you criticize someone and bring up how few charities they have and how much they donate. How many charities have you created? How much money have you given to charity? I have a feeling it isn't close to 180,000. Even if it is close, who gives you the right to talk down on someone for ever giving money to charity, regardless how much it is? Seriously, who died and made you king of the fucking world and allowed you to speak poorly on someone who has created charities.

Hmmm...

Unfortunately I don't make MILLIONS like Vick did. If I DID make that much you can be sure I'd give a lot more than $10,000 which is chump change to a multi-millionaire.

What I have done? I have spent time with handicapped children during the Special Olympics, provided meals for disabled military veterans, provided Thanksgiving food to families that cannot afford to make a Thanksgiving dinner, etc. Given that I don't prefer to toot my own horn.

And you follow that up by saying he's a piece of shit for owing people money? Dude, its almost cute that you care so much about this guy to look up all his financial history to prove he's a bad guy....but I'm not buying it. You think he went into debt on purpose? Maybe losing millions in endorsements and going to jail and losing his income had something to do with that.

Did I say that? No, I said that makes him a bad role model. Read up properly next time.

As to your answer of who would want Vick, you clearly don't watch the NFL, because there are a lot of teams who line up starting QB's that are worse than Michael Vick is RIGHT NOW. The only reason a lot of teams don't want him, is because of the group of assholes like you who hate him for any reason you can think of...and will probably protest the team's front office and stadium. Aside from the P.R. problem, a lot of teams could use him.

Don't know anyone that is currently active in the NFL that have experience in torture and killing, at least nobody convicted. I recall Clinton Portis running his mouth after Vick was arrested. Of course that guy has always been a few screws loose.

The more you talk, the more I think you have some strange obsession with hating him for no good reason. Someone wearing a Vick jersey beat you up years ago or something? Like I don't get it. Not liking him for the dog thing is okay. But calling him a low life over and over again because the dude doesn't donate enough to charity or only has two charities....or maybe because he owes people money after having his life essentially taken away for two years is just plain ridiculous.

Wow, you seemed to have missed what I put out there. He raised $170,000 with the Michael Vick Foundation but only $20,000 actually went to children. That's downright disgusting in my book. Taking money from a charity meant to help poor children? You don't see a problem with that at all?

Again, I am just piling up all the reasons AS A WHOLE that Vick is a punk that doesn't really deserve a second chance at NFL stardom. Sure, he served his jail time now he can move on with his life. But no, he needs to get back into the picture where millions of kids will look up to him again.

I anxiously await for him to screw up again. If he's anything like his younger brother I am sure he will.

[jdog]

Actually J, I get what you're saying, I mean, I know that Pits aren't born that way, but those dogs were already in the mix...

All in all, I mean...Like I said...It's just a dog...If you run over a dog on the highway, you don't pull to the side of the road and call the police so they can fill out a report and get the dog to the coroner...It's an animal...And no, they definitely shouldn't be killed for recreation or in that manner...But, its still just a dog...I just think, for all that its worth...The crimes, the lying...Dude did a year in jail...There are people, as I mentioned, that have done far worse and got away easier...

It's not just A SINGLE dog, Ja. A total of 49 dogs were taken alive from his kennel. IIRC there was one there that was dead from wounds. Then count those that died by his hand (drowning, hanging) or died because of wounds from fighting. It's not just A dog, Ja.

Out of those 49 dogs taken alive, 2 were put to sleep. One was too aggressive against humans and the other was in poor health. Out of 47 dogs left alive, 22 of them went to an animal sanctuary because they were too aggressive towards other dogs. 25 were placed in foster car and some have been adopted into new families.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02351.html

Believe me, I know that there are worse people out there. I just have zero respect for Michael Vick at all.

NFL players have the highest average number of years spent in college

No doubt...If you could go to the NFL from high school though, I bet that number would be lower than a turtle's stomach..And I didn't call them dumb, I said they're not the smartest mofos...And not just academically...Like I said, that shit requires radical transformation...Not Clark Kent to Superman, we're talking old Mr. Wittle down at the pharmacy turning into some shit that would make Van Helsing run for cover...Motherfuckers that push themselves to the hardest physical limits possible, have a kill or be killed mentality, and then are expected to put on a suit and 'be normal'...We talking, 'Hey Drew, lets go out in the yard and you let me hit you as hard as I can, as many times as I can, and we come back in the house and be friends still,' type shit...

Wait, he said that? I thought it was doctors and teachers that had the highest average number of years spent in college? Last time I checked most NFL players opt out early and don't even finish college let alone get a degree.

[Drew]

Wait, he said that? I thought it was doctors and teachers that had the highest average number of years spent in college? Last time I checked most NFL players opt out early and don't even finish college let alone get a degree.

That was quoted from a list of things that NFL players have...and at the end I have "of professional athletes".... I'm not a moron....

Unfortunately I don't make MILLIONS like Vick did. If I DID make that much you can be sure I'd give a lot more than $10,000 which is chump change to a multi-millionaire.

What I have done? I have spent time with handicapped children during the Special Olympics, provided meals for disabled military veterans, provided Thanksgiving food to families that cannot afford to make a Thanksgiving dinner, etc. Given that I don't prefer to toot my own horn.

That's great that you've done all that work....it still doesn't give you the right to criticize other people's work towards charity. There are hundreds if not thousands of professional athletes who probably give NOTHING to charity, and your gripe is you don't think the man gives enough? He doesn't owe anyone anything for being successful, the fact that he gives anything should be enough.

As to your answer of who would want Vick, you clearly don't watch the NFL, because there are a lot of teams who line up starting QB's that are worse than Michael Vick is RIGHT NOW. The only reason a lot of teams don't want him, is because of the group of assholes like you who hate him for any reason you can think of...and will probably protest the team's front office and stadium. Aside from the P.R. problem, a lot of teams could use him.

Don't know anyone that is currently active in the NFL that have experience in torture and killing, at least nobody convicted. I recall Clinton Portis running his mouth after Vick was arrested. Of course that guy has always been a few screws loose.

I do not understand how this refutes anything that I said. Or makes any type of point at all. Or even needs to be said.


You can hate the guy all you want. I'm SURE that you're not alone in that. But just because he is an asshole doesn't mean he doesn't have a right to play in the NFL. There are a lot of star players who are not good role models and are downright jerks. Unfortunately, being a good guy and a good person is not a prerequisite to playing in the NFL. In fact, if it were, the NFL would probably be less entertaining.

[jdog]

Wait, he said that? I thought it was doctors and teachers that had the highest average number of years spent in college? Last time I checked most NFL players opt out early and don't even finish college let alone get a degree.

That was quoted from a list of things that NFL players have...and at the end I have "of professional athletes".... I'm not a moron....

I never said you were. But I would think that the highest average number of years spent in college would probably go to doctors and teachers. Not sure where you got your source from.

And of course NFL players have gone to college. It's pretty much a standard requirement. Don't know of anyone that waited their time from high school and actually made it into the NFL.

Unfortunately I don't make MILLIONS like Vick did. If I DID make that much you can be sure I'd give a lot more than $10,000 which is chump change to a multi-millionaire.

What I have done? I have spent time with handicapped children during the Special Olympics, provided meals for disabled military veterans, provided Thanksgiving food to families that cannot afford to make a Thanksgiving dinner, etc. Given that I don't prefer to toot my own horn.

That's great that you've done all that work....it still doesn't give you the right to criticize other people's work towards charity. There are hundreds if not thousands of professional athletes who probably give NOTHING to charity, and your gripe is you don't think the man gives enough? He doesn't owe anyone anything for being successful, the fact that he gives anything should be enough.

I will make it a point if a professional athlete makes $170,000 towards a charity but only $20,000 of that actually goes to the whole point of the charity.

You can hate the guy all you want. I'm SURE that you're not alone in that. But just because he is an asshole doesn't mean he doesn't have a right to play in the NFL. There are a lot of star players who are not good role models and are downright jerks. Unfortunately, being a good guy and a good person is not a prerequisite to playing in the NFL. In fact, if it were, the NFL would probably be less entertaining.

Actually, being a good person is pretty much standard these days. Bad people can ruin a locker room. Just look at Terrell Owens, the initial subject of this thread. He's like an infectious disease to any football team. I have no clue why the Bills gave him a try unless it was to take some pressure off of Lee Evans.

[¡ñ±£¿®∆L Ф¶†ïς@п]

I never said you were. But I would think that the highest average number of years spent in college would probably go to doctors and teachers. Not sure where you got your source from.

And of course NFL players have gone to college. It's pretty much a standard requirement. Don't know of anyone that waited their time from high school and actually made it into the NFL.

The initial point of that "college studies" interjection Drew offered was that among the top venues of athletics and sport, (the MLB, NBA, NFL, NHL, and the lesser-knowns, like MLS and ATP) those players in the NFL spend the most time in college and/or have a higher degree of learning than is required by any other sporting league in comparison.
This is pretty recognizable and can be easily accounted for, but if you want source jdog, they can be provided.
Also, I'm not sure why or how you got to the tangent of teachers and doctors, other than by missing the clause of speech indicating "among top athletes".

I will make it a point if a professional athlete makes $170,000 towards a charity but only $20,000 of that actually goes to the whole point of the charity.

No, actually it doesn't. If Michael Vick, or any other celebrity for that matter, sets up a charity, it is not only their money that is being donated to the specific cause. I'd be surprised if even one recognizable and promoted charity issued in the name of a person is set up so that only its cumulative funds are solely being donated by that person; it's the exact opposite: a "celeb" sets it up for their cause, makes an initial and sometimes ongoing donation, and then provides himself work by raising awareness unto other friends, marketers and organizations to support his/her cause for support.

If Vick set up a $170,000 Charity, he did respectably-well by donating a sum of $20,000 to it... that's nearly an eighth or ~12% of his goal, when most charity organization's I know of start the process of collection at 10% or less (realistically, 5-8%) of what their accounted limit is. The only fault you can give Vick is that he did not meet his initial requirement/goal to donate $170,000, and that perhaps speaks to his poor marketing skills, and/or his untimely meeting with law enforcement officials and his dog-fighting trial.

Actually, being a good person is pretty much standard these days. Bad people can ruin a locker room. Just look at Terrell Owens, the initial subject of this thread. He's like an infectious disease to any football team. I have no clue why the Bills gave him a try unless it was to take some pressure off of Lee Evans.

That's not even close to being true. Bad people are everywhere and in every level of society. It's more at the root of being selfish, but there is an innumerable amount of 'bad seeds' walking around everyday in every common place; just because they are never found out, convicted, or perceived in that manner does not change what or who they are.
We cannot graph or account the population, because it's an impossibility to measure someone's worth as being either "good or bad", but there is a substantially higher number of "bad" instances than "good" examples.

Alright, on the subject of Terrell Owens, you consider him a "bad person", and I'll take that so far to say he is a bad teammate, not that he is a bad athlete, or that goes around town in his Infiniti convertible whacking random people unconscious with a club. Those last two would make him an all-round "bad guy".
There is no evidence to suggest that he is a bad guy in the locker room, or a cancer; it is just media and team speculation abroad, and our (as the fans) perception of the circumstances. In interviews, he looks reasonable enough, even portraying himself as fun-loving guy, but there is this cloud of mystique around TO's antics that make him look as though he maligns himself with his coach and his QB. This may be true, but what is also true is that nearly every "elite" WR is a Diva, and they want the constant opportunity to make game-changing plays, which translates to wanting the ball thrown to them no less 15-20 times a game. I think that's his only fault, in that TO wants to be the hero and superstar of every single game, and he neglects that football is inherently a team sport.

Vick, whether you like him or not, classify him as a "bad person" for eternity, is getting his second chance to redeem himself in light of the public and the NFL. He apologized, very well I might add, and though there will undoubtedly those that will forever be against him for what transactions he committed in the past, he has earned his right to make amends, and the opportunity once again to entertain us and gain back some support through good and sensible services.

[jdog]

LOL! I like your "actually it doesn't" crap. You're trying to correct my opinion...it won't work. That's the beauty of an opinion. Money matters aside, I will just concentrate on the possible 100 dogs over 6 years that Michael Vick abused, tortured and killed all for his sadistic amusement.

I don't give 2nd chances to people like that. Just like I don't give 2nd chances to rapists, pedophiles, murderers or thieves. If you don't like that I put animal abusers in the same category well then too bad. Deal with it.

Also have to LOL that you deem him "entertaining". I watched a couple of his games during his career and didn't find either of them entertaining. Well, I was entertained when he was off the field and got to see that Jim Mora Jr powered defense. Michael Vick has always been hyped up. It was good to see the Falcons organization get a real franchise QB.

[¡ñ±£¿®∆L Ф¶†ïς@п]

I'm not at all tying to correct your opinion, and it is quite obvious your slant against Vick: you're wholeheartedly entitled to both.

What I have an issue with is that you are throwing your opinion around and attributing to things that can not be mistaken as anything but fact.

NFL athletes gain a higher education, on average, of two more years than any and all other major sports. Fact.

Many publicized Non-Profit Organizations (Charities) cannot be sustained indefinitely by one person alone, nor is it commonplace that a person sets up an organized funding solely being funneled by his/her own money. Fact.

And I don't believe I previously mentioned that I was ever entertained by Mike Vick; there was a ten-year hiatus in my NFL viewership, and as such, I never once watched Mike Vick play in a game.

LOL! I like your "actually it doesn't" crap. You're trying to correct my opinion...it won't work. That's the beauty of an opinion. Money matters aside, I will just concentrate on the possible 100 dogs over 6 years that Michael Vick abused, tortured and killed all for his sadistic amusement.

I don't give 2nd chances to people like that. Just like I don't give 2nd chances to rapists, pedophiles, murderers or thieves. If you don't like that I put animal abusers in the same category well then too bad. Deal with it.

Also have to LOL that you deem him "entertaining". I watched a couple of his games during his career and didn't find either of them entertaining. Well, I was entertained when he was off the field and got to see that Jim Mora Jr powered defense. Michael Vick has always been hyped up. It was good to see the Falcons organization get a real franchise QB.

[jdog]

I'm not at all tying to correct your opinion, and it is quite obvious your slant against Vick: you're wholeheartedly entitled to both.

What I have an issue with is that you are throwing your opinion around and attributing to things that can not be mistaken as anything but fact.

Everything I have said has been a fact. I haven't fabricated any of it.

NFL athletes gain a higher education, on average, of two more years than any and all other major sports. Fact.

Because it's pretty much a requirement. No NFL team is going to take some kid out of high school, period. Even if they don't go to college there's no chance of a team even being interested. The few that have done a single year in college and tried for the draft have failed.

MLB? They take kids out of Cuba and even stars from Japan. Not even a chance of having gone to any US college or university.

NHL? Come on, the NHL's best player is Sidney Crosby and he was playing when he was 18. Not to mention how many players come from Europe, Russia and Canada. Not likely to get any college from that.

NBA? They have been taking kids out of high school for years. Shawn Kemp, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James?

Besides, how many college football players actually make it into the NFL? 2% at most?