knowledge is power?

[AYHJA]

Knowledge is power, but like raum said, True Knowledge is another beast all together...I think what's being discussed here is information/data, and not knowledge...

And the process is a revolving dynamic...So, knowledge in the sense of information is indeed power...If you are a boxer, and you have knowledge of your opponents weakness, you can be an inferior fighter and fight to an advantage...There are almost countless amounts of information that can be used in an instant to assume power...Which I'm interpreting to mean control...

So, simply sharing knowledge in the form of information doesn't lead to a loss of power...The dynamic is such that there are true and false, added on top of a probability...Me telling you that I'm a sucker for homemade red velvet cake and a scoop of butter pecan ice cream if you didn't know that already does give you an element of power or control...But true knowledge runs a lot deeper and has a ton more variables...

[Aemeth]

So.....Any takers for defining truth?

Since I am asking, here is my shot at it:

Fuck the academic prose regarding the nature of the truth. It has rarely if ever helped me understand truth. So I offer a metaphor that I was thinking about the other day:

Asking what truth is can be considered like asking how big a massive/endless(?) unexplored cave is. As we explore it, we learn more and more about it, but we can never know how big, majestic, etc. it really is. We acquire information about the cave through the epistemologies--writing on the walls could be considered authoritarian, having a "hunch" to go explore a certain area could be intuitionism, always going north could be innatism, and choosing paths based on the "success" of previous paths would be empiricism. Your metaphysics would help determine how you choose which epistemology you utilize at different times. However, it is impossible to ever thoroughly understand the cave. So, take the red pill and find out how deep the rabbit hole goes!

But, to keep this somewhat on topic...

In one sense, truth can't be power, because those who have been the most powerful throughout history have often been evilllllll men. Maybe on an individual pilgrimage, truth is power. But from a macro-political perspective, the ability to persuade others that you know the truth=power. Heh

[Drew]

Yeah but who wants truth? It's probably highly overrated.

Not to mention, the issue of if it is even achievable is interesting in its own right.

The path and journey for finding truth is probably more rewarding than if you were to ever find it anyway, and if you do...please post it here.

[5829]

Truth is what you believe to be fact (true). But it may not so.

A couple of examples

If you have a meeting at 4:30 and you ask me what time it is and I tell you it is 4:20. You head to your meeting and it takes you 10 minutes to get there but when you get there the you find the meeting started 10 minutes ago because it is really 4:40.
Now when I told you the time you believed that I told you the truth, but now you probably don't. If you ask me and I say that I did tell you the truth but I find out that my watch is wrong did I actually tell you the truth? My answer is no. But because I believed it to be true, and since you had no reason not to believe me you did too, but only to discover that it was not.

You grew up with everybody calling you John. But you needed your birth certificate for ID and when you got it it said Tom. You ask your parents and they say that the birth certificate is wrong. But legally your name is Tom. So if somebody asks you your name now is the truth Tom?

Or maybe a more common one is that you discover that the parents that raised you are not your biological parents even though they told you that they were.

Truth can also change the more we understand. Such as we now accept as truth the the Earth is not flat and the the Earth revolves around the Sun

There is also partial truth. Such as what did you do after work? I went home.
Which is the truth, but if you did not go straight home, like stopping for gas, is that the whole truth?

Well, as the saying goes. Power corrupts. and corruption tends to go towards the Dark Side.

Such a thing as perceived knowledge, or knowledge of assumption. People might think that you possess knowledge that you really don't because of who you are or the way you act. And they may treat you as if you do.
Like you to meet Dr. Jones. Hey Doc I have a pain in my arm, what do you think it is? I really could not tell you, I'm a Veterinarian.

Or vague truth. What do you do? I work in the medical field.

[Aemeth]

Hmm, interesting...it's almost as if the truth can change...While truth is not defined through perception, that it the only way we can attempt to understand it...

@Drew: It's not an issue of who wants the truth...It's an issue of who can convince themselves it's not worth it. I don't really want the truth, but something makes me keep looking for it...Like chasing after an ex your will never get back.

[Drew]

The fact that what we consider truth changes every now and then is one of the main reason's I don't really believe that it exists, or at least if it does, us finding it isn't nearly as valuable as many people make it out to be. We have new truths all the time, for a lot of people their truth is different than my truth, and I think it's more of an abstract concept that people claim to know in order to make the way they use it seem more legit or correct than a tangible or metaphysical thing in reality.

@ A. But that's what I would posit is the problem. People look for truth like an ex they can't get back. That in itself assumes (rightfully so, imo) that it's a futile chase. Every now and then you'll get excited, there will be signs that make you think as though you've found it...but in the end, it'll elude you like it has everyone else.

Now if you're just deriving value from the chase and find it enjoyable, that's fine. But there are people who become obsessed with the truth and practically give up their life trying to find it.

A lot of my ideas on this topic come from reading and dissecting Nietzsche last semester.

In BGE 10, he has this beautiful line:

a metaphysical ambition to hold an isolated post, may really be involved, something which in the end still prefers a handful of “certainty” to an entire wagon full of beautiful possibilities. There may even be Puritan fanatics of conscience who still prefer to lie down and die on a certain nothing than on an uncertain something.

Any reaction to that? Clearly he goes more into it later on so I have a better grasp on that quote than just seeing it in isolation, but what yall think?

[raum]

For me, I go back to the root of a word. Truth essentially means "accuracy, or correctedness." To be accurate is a matter of perspective. The have the Truth is to be Absolutely Accurate, and frankly would require an omniscient perspective. Therefore there are only truly two occasions of someone declaring the heave or are the Truth:

They are arrogant and do not believe their claim. Therefore they are manipulative.

OR

They are in a state of interconnectedness with all things and it is Truth that speks through them, so the words are not exactly their own. They are channeling Truth, willingly or not.

Other than that, the word is like all English, mostly abused at a whim and misunderstood for self gain.

[5829]

Other than that, the word is like all English, mostly abused at a whim and misunderstood for self gain.

`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'
`The question is,' said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.'
`The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master -- that's all.'

Through the Looking Glass
Lewis Carroll