ADN

QUOTEthis is not a blasphemy. it is one of the original scriptures, one of the thirty-something gospels which are believed to have existed. it was not until St. Irenaeus, the bishop of Lyon made a selection of these around 180AD that the bible as we know it was "published". that fact alone (that the bible was a man-made selection of texts) makes it clear to me that the bible alone can not bring you to Truth.

They put the gospels through some pretty rigorous test to determine which ones would be included in the Bible. One of those test is how many manuscripts that they find of the gospel. The Gospel of Judas did not have nearly as many as the other gospels. Another test includes if the gospel was referred to in any other books or letters. The Gospel of Judas was not referred to in any other book or letter. Another test is how it "goes along" with the other gospels and accounts written about Jesus. Judas's Gospel is contradictory in many ways to the other gospels and accounts of Jesus.

interesting trashtalkr, but I wonder where you have that from.

according to that national geographic site I posted earlier (the timeline part), the bible as we know it is largely attributed to one man (Irenaeus) who strived to get rid of the Gnostic ideas and did so successfully. no rigorous tests, rather a method to have his own view accepted. judas then became mentioned only 8 times (if I remember well) in the new testament for example.

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Diverse writings and beliefs competed for prominence during the early centuries of the Christian church. In these formative times several notable figures helped to chart the course of Christian belief by championing scriptures that they believed truly represented the life and teachings of Jesus. They relentlessly attacked others whom they believed to be heretical.

One such theologian was St. Irenaeus, the bishop of Lyon for much of the second century, who lived from approximately A.D. 130 to 200. He was a prominent force in developing the early Christian canon, particularly the four New Testament Gospels. Irenaeus' own writings establish that as a young child in Smyrna (now Izmir, Turkey) he saw and heard Polycarp, the martyred saint some consider a living link between Jesus' Apostles and the early fathers of the orthodox Christian church. Polycarp may have studied under the Apostle John. If so, only one generation would separate Irenaeus from the Apostles themselves.

Irenaeus' Adversus haereses (Against Heresies), also known as The Refutation and Overthrow of Knowledge Falsely
So-Called, was a scathing attack on the mystical Gnosticism that influenced and threatened to absorb the church in his day. The text was originally written in Greek around A.D. 180, but is now known only from a later Latin translation.

Irenaeus strived to obliterate Gnostic ideas and the writings that espoused them. He and other ecclesiastical leaders were so successful that before the discovery of a surviving Gnostic library at Nag 'Hammadi, Egypt, in 1945, Irenaeus' detailed refutations of the Gnostic movement were among the only modern sources explaining its beliefs.
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full text of that "Against Heresies" is here: http://www.gnosis.org/library/advh1.htm

btw the ideas expressed in this Gospel of Judas, also appear in John's Apocryphon. the latter also talks about the aeons, about Yaltabaoth, the origin of man - so this Judas text certainly is not the only one bringing up the ideas you read.

WOW...

Despite the many missing lines, this was a tremendously good read..! Thanks for posting it Brains...

Some of that material, the more esoteric parts, are not unfamiliar to me...In fact, some of them are VERY familar to me (What I get for being chums w/raum /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />) and I'm interested to see what he says about them...I didn't see any blaspheme in there though tt, care to share..? This presented a very different picture of Jesus than the rest of the bible, and all that mind blowing information: no wonder it was left out of the bible...

I await the response of the resident expert in these matters, as I'm sure he knows all about it, and I have plenty of questions...

I have yet to be convinced that Jesus was not an opium-abusing woman-teaser who liked to hit the casinos a lot.

hehe

This is interesting to me becasue I have never thought of it taking place where Jesus would ask Judas to turn him over. I believe that Jesus had to die to fulfill the 'plan', so it had to happen. Jesus obviously new it was going to happen, and allowed it to happen.

Lot of good questions in this topic.Heres my take on the early days.Christain belief starts spreading all over.Becouse of its popularity many of the other relegons start incorperating its beliefs into there teachings.Each one competes for followers by picking and choosing things that will make this or that group of peaple feel comfortable.Some groups my even start as christain but slowly change by adding other beliefs to make new converts of other relegions feel good. They also claim secret knowledge that makes there teachings better.A lot of these groups write there own gospels.At some point a whole bunch of men got together and had to decide which gospels were closest to the teachings of jesus.Just becouse these books were written around the same time dosn't mean they are all true to what jesus was trying to teach.Also what sense would it make to give secret knowledge to one and not the other apostles.That only could result in confussion and mistrust.Seems to me that its much more likly that men with big egos and a desire to creat there own church with as many followers as possible created false doctrine for that purpose

Intresting perspective...It would cause some tension to tell one group one thing and the other group another...

It was a good read to me. I have read a couple of books that corroberate this. Jesus possessed the mysteries of life. Judas was a high priest....Why not share with him if that's your boy...Everybody has a role...Just playing his part if u ask me...

I've heard some interesting things about these Gnostic Gospels (Gospel of Judas being one of them). I've been told that these gospels were written in the 2nd century (while the 4 Gospels in the Bible were written around the 1st century) and that they have nothing to do with the person associated with the gospel. For instance, Judas had nothing to do with this gospel. Thomas had nothing to do with his. They were written by a sect of the The Way (before Christianity was called Christianity) who called themselves gnostics. They wrote these to try and promote that Jesus was human and wasn't God's Son at all.

You make some damn good points for a guy named trashtalkr...Different groups that believed in a large mixture of things combined those beliefs with the teachings of jesus creating some thing fundementaly defferent.They used one of the apostles names for there group to make it seem like it was legit than wrote those beliefs down calling it the gospel of judas or mary. Youve heard of dont judge a book by its cover?...well dont judge a book by its name.