ADN

Iraq has NEVER been stable.

Personally, maybe we as Americans should lob some missiles at some foreign embassies.

it seems to be the only attack that is still justified, and never sees the light of criticism.

Seriously, if Saddam wasn't that bad, let's lob some rocks at Iranian embassies. BIG rocks.

raum: my first post in this thread stated "be it with a dictator in charge", which conveys some sort of contradiction or enforcement as in amazement. As in: how can a country be stable when there is a dictator?! And yet it was. More stable than it is now or do you disagree?

@rr23: women would not get raped at random, men would not be killed at random, people were not starving to death. they had a proper educational systems, they had good functioning hospitals, they had water, gas and electricity, they could go out where and when they wanted and talk to whoever they pleased: shia, sunni, kurd, christians and jews were living side by side. they were NOT unsafe, at the absolute very least NOT anymore than they are now.

With Saddam, you had something to fear when you strongly went AGAINST him. You knew you could become a possible target. Now, even if you thread the absolute unpartisan and ultra-peacefull middle road, you CAN be a target. Anyone is now: soldiers, policemen, social workers, teachers, housewives, predicants, doctors, government personel, youth attending school, girls playing in the yard. E-VE-RY single human being in Iraq now is a potential target of these loose cannons. before you had Saddam's dictatorship hanging these loose cannons. they just could not get a foothold there. with the post-war vacuum, they flourished. getting them down on their knees now is a HUGE frikken problem.

QUOTE(Brains)@rr23: women would not get raped at random, men would not be killed at random, people were not starving to death. they had a proper educational systems, they had good functioning hospitals, they had water, gas and electricity, they could go out where and when they wanted and talk to whoever they pleased: shia, sunni, kurd, christians and jews were living side by side. they were NOT unsafe, at the absolute very least NOT anymore than they are now.

1) Women didn't get raped? Are you sure? I was there... better check your facts.
2) Men didn't get killed at random? Maybe not random, but all they had to do was look cross eyed in the wrong direction and they were being chopped up for kibble food.
3) Education system... the girls couldn't do anything except the most basic of fuctions because of theur radical ideals about male dominance. Or, did you mean the Al-Qaeda training camps?

(1) you were there before the illegal, mini-coalition led invasion of 2003?! O_o what a stunner! really?

(3) get your facts straight:
In 1973, Iraq began an all-out assault on illiteracy. Thousands of Iraqis were sent overseas to obtain advanced degrees. They, in turn, came back to Iraq to educate the next generation of educators.

In the 1980s, the Iraqi education system was universally acknowledged by the U.N. and many international education organizations as the best in the world for developing countries. Officials from many nations visited Iraq and took notes at how the system worked. These facts have simply been ignored in the past few years in re-writing the history of Iraq.

An interesting part of the Ba†™‚¢‚¢¢¢¬…¡‚¬‚¢¢¢¬…¾

‚¢ath education system was its secular approach. Students received a first-class education regardless of their religious affiliation. Females attended school regularly and did not have to wear a veil if they did not choose. Today†™‚¢‚¢¢¢¬…¡‚¬‚¢¢¢¬…¾

‚¢s Iraqi education experience is far different. Few females attend class. In most areas, they are compelled to wear veils, ever if they†™‚¢‚¢¢¢¬…¡‚¬‚¢¢¢¬…¾

‚¢ve never worn one in their lives. And, they mostly have to be escorted to school by two male family members.

By 1990, the literacy rate in Iraq had grown from about 40% in 1973, to almost 90% This success rate was unheard of in the Arab world.

Isn't Saddam on trial for war crimes... massacring the Kurds after the Gulf War... weren't his sons responsible for torturing and killing a large number of people...

Fuck living in Canada! I'm moving to Iraq where it's safe and peaceful... just like in Michael Moore's movie where he shows men sipping coffee and kids playing with kites... who knew it was actually like that...

I think all the Iraqis who were pissing on Saddam posters and slapping Saddam statues with their shoes should be shot on the spot! How dare they disrespect their fearless leader!

QUOTE(Brains)(1) you were there before the illegal, mini-coalition led invasion of 2003?! O_o what a stunner! really?

(3) get your facts straight:
In 1973, Iraq began an all-out assault on illiteracy. Thousands of Iraqis were sent overseas to obtain advanced degrees. They, in turn, came back to Iraq to educate the next generation of educators.

In the 1980s, the Iraqi education system was universally acknowledged by the U.N. and many international education organizations as the best in the world for developing countries. Officials from many nations visited Iraq and took notes at how the system worked. These facts have simply been ignored in the past few years in re-writing the history of Iraq.

An interesting part of the Ba†™‚¢‚¢¢¢¬…¡‚¬‚¢¢¢¬…¾

‚¢ath education system was its secular approach. Students received a first-class education regardless of their religious affiliation. Females attended school regularly and did not have to wear a veil if they did not choose. Today†™‚¢‚¢¢¢¬…¡‚¬‚¢¢¢¬…¾

‚¢s Iraqi education experience is far different. Few females attend class. In most areas, they are compelled to wear veils, ever if they†™‚¢‚¢¢¢¬…¡‚¬‚¢¢¢¬…¾

‚¢ve never worn one in their lives. And, they mostly have to be escorted to school by two male family members.

By 1990, the literacy rate in Iraq had grown from about 40% in 1973, to almost 90% This success rate was unheard of in the Arab world.

Uh, ya, I was there in 2001 trooper. I am a retired 18B in the United States Army. When you look that up and see what it is, you will know why I can speak about things.

You talk like you are reading a teleprompter straight from the Iraqi Telelvision network. You thoughts are so riddled with incorrect statements it baffles me. You know what CNN tells you. You know what the media wants you to know. It would scare you to know what I know. Stop hiding behind the internet with your ignorant statements, join the military and go over there and see if the enemy is as nice as you think. If Iraq was such a good place, why were people dying by the thousands and fleeing when they got the chance?

no kramer. saddam is not on trial for "war crimes"; he is for "crimes against humanity", for "genocide", for "massacres". All of which are true. He did so. He IS guilty. I agree there. He IS NOT a good man, but he WAS able to keep his country stable - like a lot of dictators can.


but waw you throw things together, mix them up and defend whatever result you come up with. He is not on trial for "massacring the Kurds after the Gulf War". You had the Kurd massacre in the 80'ies and the Gulf War years later. Both are totally unconnected.

He is on trial for:
(1) the killing of more than 140 men in the mostly Shia town of Dujail after a failed assassination attempt against him in 1982.
(2) alleged genocide and crimes against humanity in a campaign against the Kurds dating back to the late 1980s.

the end of the gulf war and his attack against the shi'ites are not even considered.

Saddam is on trial because he is the lowest for of human shit there is.

You're right, he is on trial for the 1982 incident. I got a little carried away... lol But if I remember correctly, he still killed many Kurds after the Gulf War.

Yep, he went Hitler on them and just gased the living shit out of them... literally. Saddam doesn't even think he did anything wrong either.