ADN

Kramer, if that is my problem, it also is yours - at least on this topic.

You take literally that Ahmadinejad wants to destroy Israel, while he apparently could "only" be talking about the zionist regime. If you read literally, he says "Very soon, this stain of disgrace [i.e. Israel] will be purged from the center of the Islamic world." Reading between the lines, you could say that he "just" wants to get rid of the current regime.

(I am just discussing here aye Kramer. I am NOT saying he does want or he does not. I don't know that. The common denominator we both agree on that his words are not very diplomatic. The words themselves are dangerous to pronounce...)

two. about the cartoons and the gallery. the west published cartoons. the islam world reacted and voiced their dissapproval. instead of apologizing, we print them again... hmm. not very nice of us, but still the complete west says "THEY are exagerating. THEY have been burning embassies. WE only printed some stupid cartoon." Why can't Iran have a gallery with cartoons about the holocaust. We called upon freedom of speech, so can Iran, no?!

Brains, look at the evidence as found in Persia.

He is all too willing to let Jews live who submit to Islamic authority, but not let Israel survive, or let Jews have sovereignty.

and he will kill Jews who seek Jewish leadership, self-direction, or governmental representation, as evidenced by the Jews he condemns in Persia. He believes Jews should submit to the natural evolution of God's will, and he believes that evolved state is Islam.


He is not explicitly calling for a death of every Jew in Israel, he is calling for the END OF ISRAEL, even if it means he has to kill every Jew more loyal to Israel than willing to submit to Islam. And before you question if he is welcome, he has already said he will sacrifice one out of every six Iranians to destroy Israel.

Part of the identity of Israel is the identity of Israelis, and that is what he seeks to destroy.

Russia sends missiles to Iran
POSTED: 4:33 p.m. EST, November 24, 2006

MOSCOW, Russia (AP) -- Russia has begun delivery of Tor-M1 air defense missile systems to Iran, a Defense Ministry official said Friday, confirming that Moscow would proceed with arms deals with Tehran in spite of U.S. criticism.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the issue, declined to specify when the deliveries had been made and how many systems had been delivered.

Ministry officials have previously said Moscow would supply 29 of the sophisticated missile systems to Iran under a $700 million (565 million euros) contract, according to Russian media reports.

The United States called on all countries last spring to stop all arms exports to Iran, as well as ending all nuclear cooperation with it to put pressure on Tehran to halt uranium enrichment activities.

Tehran insists its nuclear program is for peaceful purposes, but the United States and its allies suspect Iran is trying to develop weapons.

The U.N. Security Council, where Russia is a veto-wielding permanent member, is currently stalemated on the severity of sanctions on Iran for defying its demand to cease uranium enrichment.

Local vote embarrassing Iran president



TEHRAN, Iran - President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad suffered an embarrassing blow in local council races, according to partial election results Monday, in voting viewed as a sign of public discontent with his hard-line stance.

The balloting represented a partial comeback for opponents of Ahmadinejad, whose Islamic government's policies have fueled fights with the West and brought Iran closer to U.N. sanctions.

Former President Hashemi Rafsanjani, a relative moderate, polled the most votes of any Tehran candidate to win re-election to a key assembly post.

The biggest victory was for "moderate conservatives," supporters of Iran's cleric-led power structure who are angry at Ahmadinejad, saying he has needlessly provoked the West with harsh rhetoric and has failed to fix the country's faltering economy.

The election, held Friday, does not directly affect Ahmadinejad's administration and is not expected to bring immediate policy changes. It selected local councils that handle community matters in cities and towns across Iran.

But it represented the first time the public has weighed in on Ahmadinejad's stormy presidency since he took office in June 2005. The results, if the trend holds, could pressure Ahmadinejad to change at least his tone and focus more on high unemployment and other economic problems. Full official results are expected Tuesday.

Ahmadinejad, who was elected to a four-year term in June 2005, has escalated Iran's nuclear dispute with the United States, pushing ahead with uranium enrichment despite U.N. demands to suspend the process. As a result, Europe has come to support Washington's calls for sanctions to stop a program they fear aims to develop nuclear weapons, a claim Iran denies.

The president also has angered Europe and the U.S. by proclaiming Israel will one day be "wiped out" and hosting a conference casting doubt on the Nazi Holocaust.

"Ahmadinejad's list has suffered a decisive defeat nationwide," said the Islamic Iran Participation Front, the largest reformist party. "It is a big no to the government's authoritarian and inefficient methods."

In some cities such as Shiraz and Bandar Abbas, not one pro-Ahmadinejad candidate won a council seat, according to partial results announced by the Interior Ministry.

In Tehran, candidates supporting Mayor Mohammed Bagher Qalibaf, a moderate conservative, were on track to win seven of 15 council seats. Reformists were set to win four, while Ahmadinejad's allies had three, partial results showed. The last seat was likely to go to an independent.

Similar anti-Ahmadinejad sentiment was visible in a parallel election for members of the Assembly of Experts, a body of 86 senior clerics that monitors Iran's supreme leader and chooses his successor. Several pro-reform clerics were barred from running, but conservative opponents of the president appeared to outperform his supporters.

Along with Rafsanjani, another high-profile winner was Hasan Rowhani, Iran's former top nuclear negotiator, whom Ahmadinejad has accused of making too many concessions to the Europeans.

By contrast, Ayatollah Mohammad Taqi Mesbah Yazdi ¢¢¬¢‚¬ regarded as the president's hard-line spiritual mentor ¢¢¬¢‚¬ won an assembly seat. An Yazdi ally was defeated by a more moderate conservative cleric in the city of Qom.

Turnout in the local council vote was more than 60 percent ¢¢¬¢‚¬ higher than the 50 percent in the last one, held in 2002.

The "moderate conservative" camp emerged as a strong political force, positioned between pro-Ahmadinejad hard-liners and the reformists. In their campaign, they promised to improve living standards, modernize the economy and promote "competency" in administration.

Qalibaf and his supporters do not back moving closer to the United States and they oppose giving up uranium enrichment, a position shared by almost all camps in Iran, where the nuclear program is a source of national pride.

But they oppose extreme stances that fuel tensions with the outside world and accuse Ahmadinejad of provoking the West. The moderates also tolerate less restrictive social rules on mixing of sexes and women's dress, while many hard-liners want tougher restrictions.

One moderate headed to victory, former Tehran police chief Morteza Talai, was popular among reformers because his forces did not crack down on the few anti-government protests that have occurred at universities during Ahmadinejad's presidency.

Political analyst Mostafa Mirzaeian said Iran's political lineup was moving toward "a coalition between reformers and moderate conservatives, at the expense of hard-line extremists who support Ahmadinejad."

The showing raised hopes for reformers, especially since many of their candidates were barred from running by parliament committees. Among the apparent victors in Tehran was Massoumeh Iftikhar, who served as Iran's first female vice president during the term of pro-reform President Mohammad Khatami..

Khatami was elected in 1997 and reformers gained control of parliament soon after. In recent years, hard-liners regained the legislature by using cleric-run bodies to bar top reformists from running.

'Red Crystal' debuts to protect medics



GENEVA - The "Red Crystal" debuts Sunday as an emblem that can be used to protect its relief workers, part of an agreement for Israel's admission to the Red Cross movement after more than half a century of exclusion.


During decades of stalemate, stemming from the Jewish state's reluctance to display a cross or crescent, some countries had feared that adding a red Star of David to the list of protective emblems would open the door to proliferation of other such symbols and undermine the recognition that any emblem had to protect humanitarian workers.

But it was unlikely that the red crystal, a red square frame standing on one corner, would be widely displayed in the near future.

A spokeswoman for the International Committee of the Red Cross conceded Friday it will take time before the crystal will be widely enough known that medics on the battlefield will be able to work under it without fear of being targeted.

"It's legally now a protective emblem, but there's a lot of work to be done for it to be in reality and concretely a protective emblem because it needs to be known in the field and respected," the spokeswoman, Antonella Notari, told The Associated Press.

Israel's rescue society, Magen David Adom, sought membership in 1949 but objected to using either the cross or the crescent that medics on the battlefield have displayed for more than a century. The Red Cross movement refused to admit the group's symbol, a red Star of David.

The red crystal was approved over Muslim objections in a hard-fought diplomatic conference in December 2005. The treaty authorizing the new symbol is entering into force six months after Switzerland and Norway became the first two countries to ratify it.

"We are pleased they created especially for us a new symbol that will be accepted the world over," said Dr. Noam Yifrach, chairman of the executive committee of Magen David Adom. The Israeli organization puts the red Star of David inside the crystal's frame.

Any national society in the international Red Cross movement can use the crystal if it wants. Military medics also can display it instead of the cross or crescent.

In combat, the crystal is supposed to stand alone, but for fundraising and identification purposes at home a society could put its own emblem inside the frame.

Israel, which became a member of the Red Cross last June after a meeting of the movement cleared the way for the new symbol, will still be able to use the star on ambulances inside Israel.

The red cross on a white background ” the reversal of colors of the Swiss flag ” was adopted as the emblem of the movement when it was founded in 1863 by Swiss humanitarians trying to care for battlefield casualties who otherwise would have been left to suffer.

But the symbol unintentionally reminded Muslims of the Christian crusaders, and they began using a red crescent in the 19th century.

Notari said the intent behind the red crystal was to underscore the universality of the humanitarian movement and enhance its credibility as a neutral party.

"Ultimately, the goal is to improve protection for all those who need it, be they beneficiaries of humanitarian aid or persons striving to deliver it," she said.

reading this thread again, here is my stance given vantage by the timing of the response:

Brains has a question: How do we know this iranian President is a threat?
Answer : http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/date ... 910627.stm

The current "President" is the puppet of the mastermind of the 444 days Americans spent as hostages so this regime could come into power. This regime is not popular with everyone in Iran. More critics call into question the current "President's" HARSH words calling for the destruction of Israel, or opposing UN nuclear mandates, or calling the US out for a fight.

But this regime in Iran will destroy the country before they give it up to the kind of Democratic change the more optimistic citizens have. Clinton dropped the ball on healing the relations with Iran that were severed,.. and even he admits that he missed that opportunity.

My own question is not if we need to attack Iran, but rather I think of energy needs as legitimate, and yet I maintain nuclear is not what they need. Nuclear ONLY adds to grid capacity; Iran's major energy concerns are automobile related. DFO and RFO (standard petroleum based heating fuel like they burn in generators) can not be run in cars. Even Kerosene (used for starting up generators, or achieved unscheduled peak generation cycles) has to be blended. Nuclear energy is not just dangerous in Iran's hand, it is fiscally irresponsible.

Personally, I would comepletely cut them off. I would say, "if you drive your country broke trying to get nuclear energy generation properties and capabilities, you are on your own. When all of your people are starving, and jobless because they are not skilled enough to work in the plants... When all of your oil becomes of so little value because refining technology is ramping up faster than nuclear, and none of unrefined prices compare to the refined oil you will have to import... you are on your own."

The idiocy and insistence of Iran in this is going to be costly, and the whole damn world will turn to my tax dollars to save the people of Iran from the ambition they simply can not afford or understand. In this world where global cooling is a potentially deadly threat as we cease burning fossil fuels and the sun's radiation lessens, those kind of mistakes are too costly.

Nuclear energy costs about 2.62 cents a megawatt hour in start up costs alone. Iran doesn't have the money to do so without striking some very dubious deals. Those costs don't even factor in the need to buy defenses for your facilities.