ADN

I'm not saying that death is a bad thing, but what this guy did is a bad thing. What all school shooters do is a bad thing. Killing innocent people is never good.

Any of us could have ended up like that? No man, not at all. I never would do something like that. While sin is inherent in all men, brutality like that isn't. You've gotta be totally fucked up to act like that

QUOTE(Aemeth @ Oct 5 2006, 09:01 PM) Fuckin hypocrites..C'mon guys, any of us could have ended up like that...Just consider if your environment and genetic makeup were completely different...Sides, ppl like these guys are more passionate about their hate than 99% of us are about our "love." I am not saying that he does not have to pay the penalty for what he did. Actions have consequences. But don't judge ppl, don't hate them, and don't think you are better than them. Hate the enemy. He is ultimately responsible. Love as Jeshua loved, embrace the sinners. I shouldn't have to be typing this...RIP to those who suffered from this, but why is death so bad anyway?

I really don't think this had much to do with his environment. His family seems stable, and even the female relatves he allegedly abused said, um, that never happened.

and there is no genetic exclusivity to the people who release little boys and teachers go and tie little girls up execution style and shoot them at point blank range!!! That is more brutal than snipers of the past, or even columbine, if you ask me.

what it looks like is that he began to fabricate memories of being a horrible person, that he thought he had repressed. slowly, in his mind he began to develop false memories that he felt compelled were repressed, and when it got worse, he began to somehow be tempted to do things again that he had never done.

what I don't get is WHY THE AMISH? AMSh, the three mother letters of Hebrew. You know they are already raising money for the killer's family, as well as their own family's of the victims? They proceeded in their carriages past the killer's families and offered forgiveness. no one deserves this, but these people especially.

they dug those little girl's graves by hand. and since they would be willing to do that, they should never have to, man... and its not fair to those people.

as for what comes after this, those little girls died in terror, and you may not know much about death, but did you know a person's brain stays alive for a few days afterward, and the person's essentially dreaming? what do you think the trauma did to those little girl's transitions from life?

i tend to disagree.

i dont think genetic make up or how they were brought up affects a person as much as these shrinks make it out to be hoestly....

i know sum1 that had an alcohlic abusive dad.... shit they guy took and watched the abuse til he was 18 then left home.....

he could've ended up like his dad bashing his woman n drinkin cos thats all he saw growin up but he turned out completely the opposite. he chose not to be like his dad... he never used his dad as an excuse for any of his mistakes.....

he doesnt drink that much n would never lay a hand on another person unless he had no choice so this guy that went out n shot up these kids was jus a fucken wanker in my book plain n simple

Why the hell are people even making excuses for this guy? Oh, it was his environment, oh, it was his childhood, oh, it was his genetic make-up.

BULLSHIT!

I think Aemeth is just trying to play devil's advocate. Wrong fucking issue, man.

This guy came in with a large fucking arsenal: three guns, two knives, a stun gun, and 600 rounds of ammunition... as well as some equipment to use on the kids...

He executed three girls, killed another two, and critically wounded another five or so.

Living in a shitty environment doesn't justify that...

I was expecting this kind of response lol...

No I am not making excuses for him. I am saying don't judge him as an inferior person to you. If I was trying to get him off the hook, I probably wouldn't have said what I did about him still having to pay the full penalty for his actions.

You guys say genetical makeup and your environment aren't as important as people think. But I ask, how do you develop your worldview? What determines your epistimology? Basically, what else is there?

I think the answer is God. That is what can set you apart from your "predetermined life." After all, without any spiritual element in life, aren't we just animals acting according to instinct? But I wonder (and argue...yes, I played a mild devil's advocate) if those who have not accepted God are as free as those who have...

Idk, I just was a little pissed at all the hate in this thread...People talking like "how could he do this shit, what a sinner..." seem to forget we all were born sinners...

That's all, sorry if I came off too strong...

Oh and @ raum...interesting...what I would ask everyone hating on this dude is, what if it had been you who started to develop false memories and shit?

we all develop false memories based on our limited experience.

most of we think we dream is made up after we wake up and try to piece it together.

to answer your questions:

Question: How do you develop your worldview?

Answer: by processing your experiences and memories.

Question: What determines your epistimology?

Answer: your approach to determine the nature of things.


neither one points to systematically executed children. I have had dreams where I killed people, and I have had memories turn out to be false...

the CHOICE this man made is clearly premeditated... the tendencies he had were not unique. Many people function with homocidal tendencies. I do so everyday. Personally, I advocate human sacrifice (not ritual killing, but I believe human lives are claimed as a price for extreme conviction - just as a soldier makes the "ultimate sacrifice"), and believe that certain people were born to be offered as such, just as was Jeshua. But, then again I am not going to go decide who, and I am damn sure not VOLUNTEERING to go without a fight or a tremendous
show of magnaminous proportions.

but this guy did not do it for even perverted nature of these kind of sentments... he did this because he was unwilling to live with his tendencies, and unwilling to die alone. He killed these little girls to have some control over death, so he would have the courage to face it; this is a classic approach to the execution of children.

and the means in which he did it was systematically cruel, heartless, and the people he did it to were people who hold a morale community the likes of which is unfortunately very rare these days.

QUOTE(Aemeth @ Oct 6 2006, 08:06 PM) I was expecting this kind of response lol...

No I am not making excuses for him. I am saying don't judge him as an inferior person to you. If I was trying to get him off the hook, I probably wouldn't have said what I did about him still having to pay the full penalty for his actions.

You guys say genetical makeup and your environment aren't as important as people think. But I ask, how do you develop your worldview? What determines your epistimology? Basically, what else is there?

I think the answer is God. That is what can set you apart from your "predetermined life." After all, without any spiritual element in life, aren't we just animals acting according to instinct? But I wonder (and argue...yes, I played a mild devil's advocate) if those who have not accepted God are as free as those who have...

Idk, I just was a little pissed at all the hate in this thread...People talking like "how could he do this shit, what a sinner..." seem to forget we all were born sinners...

That's all, sorry if I came off too strong...

Oh and @ raum...interesting...what I would ask everyone hating on this dude is, what if it had been you who started to develop false memories and shit?

Im not really judging him as an inferior person. i am calling him an ass n dickhead for doing it but that doesnt mean in anyway he is inferior to me....

regardless of his environment or genetic make up, unless he has been home schooled n never watched a movie or tv, or read a book or seen another human apart from his abusive relo's, he knew it was wrong..

a person's world view doesnt jus come from parents and home life. shit if he went to school, watched tv, interacted with other ppl then he must've seen and known what he was doin is wrong, plain n simple.....

u cant tell me no1 told him or he couldnt figure out killin a bunch of school kids is wrong n fucked up....

So you are fine with calling yourself an ass and a dickhead (since he is not inferior to you)?

School, TV, and interaction all fall under the "environment" category...

And I honesty don't think you can kill a bunch of kids and know that it is wrong and fucked up (hear me out..). Some philosopher (forget who) said we don't do anything we feel is wrong. The only evil in the world comes about by people having fucked up perceptions of what is right. For example, someone may steal money and know that it is "wrong" but they feel the extra cash they are getting out of it makes it the superior choice. Basically, why would we ever make what we thought was an inferior choice? It is only after where we seem to be able to be like "damn, wtf was i thinking!"

Seriously though, have you ever heard of somebody genuinely repenting before they did something?! No, because every choice we make, all things considered, is the superior choice in our eyes.

And if our genetics and environment (no God right now, I assume and hope this dude didn't claim God..if he did, my argument changes slightly, but can still make sense [but I do have less tolerance for priests molesting kids and shit]) are responsible for who we are, how can we blame this dude for making what he thought to be the superior choice, when we all make the superior choice too?

But regardless, he still must be held responsible legally (if he didn't know the law, then his parents should be shot lol...). He can and should be forgiven if he repents, but he still must face the consequences...

Amish mourn gunman who killed 5 girls