ADN

QUOTE(raum @ Nov 16 2006, 11:37 PM) Wow... so the evaluation of someone who has no first hand experience of a product is a valuable as a consumer in a market, who has sampled and purchase products... call an advertising agency and tell them that, man.

or a firearms manufacturer.

"After nine months of erratic combat conditions and test firing several weapons. I choose this gun as a sidearm for those who might be in the action soon."

"Um, I saw pictures of all of em and even saw some of the targets after firing, and i think you should buy one from a company that made guns that everyone had, but no, I haven't fired any of them.. but this one has a soup warmer in the stock and a digital abacus on the scope and the strap can be adjusted by the sound of your voice!!! so buy it. oh and just ignore the fact that they had to recall all their handgrenades because cell phones were setting em off... k?"

experience is the basis of evaluation.
you are comparing apples to onions, buddy.

you are exactly doing what I told you before not to do. you are comparing game 1 to game 2. The first sucks, the second rules. How do you know that? By playing them both. I fully agree.

So, you are NOT comparing systems; you are NOT comparing HW and that is what this thread is more about: hw potential. On paper - with all that Sony gives - the system is a lot more value for money than MS's offering.

Or to follow your analogy: you need some hardware to kill fellow humans. On one hand you have a ill-engineered 12 shot gun. In the other you have a state-of-the-art, example-of-engineering 50-bullet gun with nightvision scope, a grenade launcher WITH a tracking system. Just looking at the specs, I can safely say I'd want the latter to do the job, although it costs more. WITHOUT even firing it. The manufacturer of the former then says: "yeah, you know, but you can upgrade ours as well to do more or less the same." The fact that I will end up paying more would be countered with "yes, but at least you can choose with us". No thanks chapski. I'll go with the well-engineered one. G'day.


QUOTEBUT I ALREADY HAVE ALL THAT OTHER STUFF EXCEPT the "NEW" BetaMax of the minute. but I am already beyond disks...

Do you really only watch movies from Disks? Me, I store my movies on a single memory device and don't even have to open the dvd cabinet to watch any of my movies. hell, with a +160 gig hd stuck in my 360, I have more media than I could ever buy, and some stuff that is never for sale, and by networking through my wireless network, I can watch something different in the bedroom than a file in the same device being watched in the living room. Blu-Ray, That is cool, will I watch "Mr. Mom" again in a new format because I can see how much more alcholism has taken its toll on Michael Keaton. no thanks. I won't even watch the Matrix again to see how much more I can see the threads of Neo's shirt. Why, because I have crap to do.

but, see I ALSO HAVE A kickass dvd player, with TWO USB SLOTS AND a multi card reader embedded slot as part of my surround sound.... and through network, I can be working on my laptop in the kitchen while working on a recipe for thanksgiving... so that usb drive is NOT in my 360, but on my router, and my surround sound dvd player is as well ...and a completely different power supply is being taxed when my girl watches sex in the city dvd extras or whatever than the one that runs my games. and if she can't see how bad that one chick's boob job is cause its not in 1080i or better, then tough for her.

cause, IF EVER, I sit down to play my games, and she says "um, I think it broke while I was watching those girls blow the FedEx guy." I will go nuts.

You want a swiss army knife, fine. I have a better screwdriver set and all the tools of it and alot more in a better design that takes up a just a little bit more space, about the space of a roll of coins in a pencase I PUT TOGETHER FOR much less of the cost...
wow. you were able to fix all that up and pay less. Or is it that you hold yourself a mirror and think you paid less, because you used rebates and trade-ins to finance for it? Because frankly, adding up all the SRP prices of all that gear, I am pretty sure you'd be a LOT over PS3's price.


QUOTEas for the overheat, i thought it was really funny. and do some homework: on my first yahoo search.

http://forums.gametrailers.com/showthread.php?t=43879
http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/10951

and there were five more on the first page...
right. "MonThackma" said so and now of course I need to accept that - even though no other reports about mallfunctioning PS3 production systems have appeared (yet?!). In fact, no reports about PS3 malfunctioning whatsoever have appeared yet - which I do find amazing as well. With all of that technology something would just need to go wrong with the machines. Alas. Up to now... nothing. Not a single report of a PS3 player complaining. But well... "MonThackma" said so. He heard it from the Gamestop guy and decided to post his "news" item on a board. Raum... that is just plain laughable to bring that up as proof. YOU?! tststs

techreport?! Yes, I heard about that story. Now all examples of these stories trace back to one "analyst for Macquarie Equities" who originally started it. It was quite some news indeed. And again... it was only one account. If PS3 really was operating that eratically during TGS, I am sure MORE sources would be mentioning that. Holy cow raum. Do you so easily believe what you want to believe. I am impressed.

Like my new avatar...

I have a pic TAKEN TODAY of the same PS3 that still doesn't work at the gamestop I aways visit. i am nto running around taking anymore, so I requested the guys make a sign saying it doesn't work. They elaborated.

as far as your gun ... interesting. You'd rather lug around a big heavy piece of equipment that has a higher fire rate, and thus less accuracy, just so you have more shit on your stick? night vision scope, what for? starlight goggles work far better and don't require the weapon to be at rest for viewing, and night vision scope assumes your fifty rounds don't flash. you have no accuracy so a scope is useless. a greanade launcher that has a tracking system on a weapon that cycles fifty round clips is prone to need calibration far too often to be reliable, and if the rounds are gas operated (which may allow some accuracy to you weapon). and the whole damn thing will have a burden that could be distributed to the hands (weapon), head (goggs) chest and back (tracking system and grenades) also if the grenade range is beyond the kill range of the rifle why not just have some grens on a string, so if you have two people, one can be grenadier and one can be gunner, and each can focus their resource to kill ratio (RTR's for the non-vets). You prove my point exactly,.. the inexperienced often think they know what they are talking about, and defy practicality. your one man squad will be taken down by a single two man assault with baseball bats and blowguns before he adjusts tactics, to a single distract and attack maneuver and you price for your weapon will limit all the other gear he needs of how many troops you can outfit.

exactly what sony forgot and why the Nintendo DS is whooping the Sony PSP and any other handheld even though it only has 64 bit graphics. Yeah, you can pay another hundred dollars and get bigger screen, and more games, and all that crap,.. but until you bring down that 299 price tag, you will find more gamers go with the 129 dollar game cause they already have a mp3 player and a digital camera, and they don't want their batteries in their game going dead while listening to music.

oh, and on my way home, I dropped by and Jerome, Eric and the guys at my gamestop made this for you... PERSONALLY.

QUOTE(raum @ Nov 17 2006, 04:46 AM) as far as your gun ... interesting. You'd rather lug around a big heavy piece of equipment that has a higher fire rate, and thus less accuracy, just so you have more shit on your stick? night vision scope, what for? starlight goggles work far better and don't require the weapon to be at rest for viewing, and night vision scope assumes your fifty rounds don't flash. you have no accuracy so a scope is useless. a greanade launcher that has a tracking system on a weapon that cycles fifty round clips is prone to need calibration far too often to be reliable, and if the rounds are gas operated (which may allow some accuracy to you weapon). and the whole damn thing will have a burden that could be distributed to the hands (weapon), head (goggs) chest and back (tracking system and grenades) also if the grenade range is beyond the kill range of the rifle why not just have some grens on a string, so if you have two people, one can be grenadier and one can be gunner, and each can focus their resource to kill ratio (RTR's for the non-vets). You prove my point exactly,.. the inexperienced often think they know what they are talking about, and defy practicality. your one man squad will be taken down by a single two man assault with baseball bats and blowguns before he adjusts tactics, to a single distract and attack maneuver and you price for your weapon will limit all the other gear he needs of how many troops you can outfit.
and again... you go off comparing apples to... oranges this time.

see. I do not pretend to know anything about guns - hell i even called them "hardware to kill fellow humans with" instead of "gun". and you can elaborate on my story and try to make it sound like I am not in the know - and you are correct, when talking about guns. you also make the mistake of comparing one piece of machinery to a "single two man assault with baseball bats and blowguns". I have not mentioned these at all.

point being: analogies only go as far as analogies go.

point being: I DO know about games. I DO know about technology and I AM pretty damn confident that PS3 gives you WAY more bang for the buck in comparison to MS's offering.

anyhows. you like MS ripping you off. I like having the most bang for the buck - even if the entrance fee is higher.


QUOTEoh, and on my way home, I dropped by and Jerome, Eric and the guys at my gamestop made this for you... PERSONALLY.
haha. tell 'em high from Antwerp. oh. and tell them they could maybe try switching the machine on for a change or give it juice. You never know, it might actually boot if you do so. /rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

all kidding aside: I have seen your story confirmed. Some PS3 demo pods overheat indeed. Luckily the average user is not getting the demo pod, but only the PS3. No reports about end-user PS3's malfunctioning have surfaced. NONE! Hmm. Quite a bit different from 360's almost 30% failure rate last year, where reports about malfunctioning crossboxes appeared only hours after launch.

WAY more bang for your buck,.. but what it the DEMAND for WAY MORE currently?

----

you might know games, but I know the gaming industry. I have seen a wave of the first home console motion controller put into play testing... by Microsoft, who said that it wasn't worth the loss of the rumble, when they could implement a different technology (forthcoming) that will allow movement as well as rumble, through a unit based sensor. I know RIGHT NOW that if Blu-Ray becomes the standard, Microsoft has an external blu-ray drive that will work for a pc their home-media system and the 360 FLAWLESSLY... and they will put it in production within two days of need arising, and it will replace the HD-DVD option they are releasing soon. And their blu-ray drive burns disks, because it is not the format of their games, so they don't lose sales or have to find gimmicks to remain in the game.

new hardware and software has always have bug outs, the ps3 is not out there yet because of two things: the stubborn pride of the sony fanbase who don't want to be proven wrong after months of defending the ps3, and the fact most of these are still in the box and will be given as gifts or sold by the consumer for net profit estimating about 10 dollars an hour for their time and effort in camping out for one.

Microsoft covers all bases. That is why they are industry standard, and that IS making its way into the home.

Here is the Japanese numbers, and they prove the gambit... Of the 10 hottest sellers, only two are for the ps3, and neither sold 22,000 units. People are buying the console, BUT NOT THE GAMES. It is to sell it, or to do something other with it.:

10 HOttest Software for consoles in Japan right now:

TW LW Title Publisher Format Weekly Sales
1 2 Otona no Joushikiryoku Training DS Nintendo DS 102,240
2 3 Pokemon Diamond Nintendo DS 78,744
3 1 Hoshi no Kirby: Sanjou! Dorocche Dan Nintendo DS 77,949
4 5 Pokemon Pearl Nintendo DS 65,574
5 NE 200-Mannin no KanKen: Tokoton Kanji Nou IE Institute DS 33,932
6 6 New Super Mario Bros. Nintendo DS 27,361
7 7 Kahashima Ryuuta Kyouju Kanshuu: Motto Nouo Kitaeru Otona DS Nintendo DS 24,166
8 4 World Soccer Winning Eleven DS Konami DS 23,653
9 NE Ridge Racer 7 Bandai Namco PS3 21,655
10 NE Kidou Senshi Gundam: Target in Sight Bandai Namco PS3 21,310

So, hmmm, Gundam, which is a global sensation with over a decade of dominance in anime culture is selling.... and ridge racer 7, which looks like crap compared to ridge racer 6 on the 360.

if you want a console and already have a computer, get a 360 or a wii. for me, I am learning to make my own 360 content already and will be putting that "vu' tip on what games I make. hehe. http://msdn.microsoft.com/directx/XNA/default.aspx

if you want a computer, get a computer that will serve your needs. I have one.

if you want a computer AND console and you have a hd tv, and you only have 700 bucks, sure get a ps3...

And if for some god awful reason you can't live without a higher deifinition of movies and you are not a console gamer, but YOU DO HAVE A COMPUTER,.. or a USB converter for a HD-DVD tv. just buy this. http://us.gizmodo.com/gadgets/periphera ... 204345.php or this http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,12610 ... ticle.html

then, at least you can burn your own disks...

or regardless of blu-ray or hd-dvd, you could just wait for the microsoft one, that will will with your pc, your laptop, (in my case) my 360.

FACT: Best selling game console unit in the world RIGHT NOW is the handheld Nintendo DS Lite.. 9.6 million units sold overall since January 2006, and up an average of 96% per month!!!! This little time waster has 64 bit graphics, and can fit in my front pocket (where it is right now). and you have to buy a media kit to watch a move... GAMES are GAMES and GAMERS WANT GAMES, NOT "Advanced Multi-redundant functioning Media Computer Consoles."

wonder how the wii interacts with it... cause nintendo is being VERY hush hush about it after sony keeps copying them...

like the next generation motion sensor the game boy color had in 2000.

QUOTE(raum @ Nov 17 2006, 05:08 PM) you might know games, but I know the gaming industry.
apparently you have not read my reply about how I am able to judge games in mere instants.

I seriously doubt you have been following the games industry since the 70'ies - which is when I actually started. I just HAD to go into every frikken arcade hall my parents used to walk me by. I was unstoppable. I just HAD to have these early handhelds (Nintendo Game & Watch), although my parents were - correctly so - reluctant to invest money in them. I HAD to have these "home computers" and started with a Vic-20. I followed the industry monthly, buying more than one magazine. I can explain why Commodore lost it, why Atari did, Coleco, Dragon, Oric, Vectrex, TI, BBC, Amiga. I know exactly when and why PC took over. I know how Nintendo ruled and why Sega took over only to be replaced by Sony's new machine which should have been an add-on to SNES. And so on. PAH! What is your background?


QUOTEI have seen a wave of the first home console motion controller put into play testing...
At that time I was working for a small Belgian company who almost succeeded in beating MS to market with the exact same product, the exact same technology. Problem was, we did not have the money to buy extra resources during crunch time and we did not have the marketing clout MS had. Rumble btw, was barely existant at that time and MS sure as hell brought there Freestyle controller to market without rumble.


QUOTEI know RIGHT NOW that if Blu-Ray becomes the standard, Microsoft has an external blu-ray drive that will work for a pc their home-media system and the 360 FLAWLESSLY...
of friggen course they have that. THat is quite clear isn't it?!


QUOTEHere is the Japanese numbers, and they prove the gambit... Of the 10 hottest sellers, only two are for the ps3, and neither sold 22,000 units. People are buying the console, BUT NOT THE GAMES. It is to sell it, or to do something other with it.:
DS is selling like hot-cakes. No news for me.

It is strange software tie-in ratio for ps3 is below 1.


QUOTEand ridge racer 7, which looks like crap compared to ridge racer 6 on the 360.
Matter of opinion. I think they look on par from these widely available screenshots which do the rounds. I would like to see other screenshots as well though. There's something fishy about the ones which are found "everywhere".


QUOTEif you want a console and already have a computer, get a 360 or a wii. for me, I am learning to make my own 360 content already and will be putting that "vu' tip on what games I make. hehe. http://msdn.microsoft.com/directx/XNA/default.aspx
yeah... you go for the yearly subscription or the 4-monthly one? If the lifetime of your console is 5 years, you end up paying $500 on top for the former or $735 on top of the 360 system's price for the latter. That is excluding your live subscription if I am not mistaking. So that would be another $250 for the former and $360 for the latter, totallying $750 and $1095 over a 5 year span. ONLY to use the live service with your box (which really should be free) and to home code a bit (which should be free as well). Add up the price of the Premium package and Xbox + Live + XNA would cost you $1150, resp. $1495. This does not give you Wireless, card readers, blu-ray and HDMI1.3. WOW. 360 is getting less attractive by the minute. lol

I had an intellivision off the boat in new orleans before it hit the shelves.

1979, got one for my birthday from my dad... who was not allowed around much. i got it with blackjack, and space armada.

my cousin had a vic-20, and I could still beat him in Combat, by tank or plane.

I had a load of watches and still have a working Tyco Football handheld.

oh, so you worked for a company that got scissored out of the gaming industry by microsoft... hmm, biased much? Do you still work in gaming. i'd love to but my expertise is needed elsewhere...

as for me building games, I built games on paper, computers, and any other way to imagine.

I still can take three bottle caps, a piece of paper, and make a game most people will play longer than a video game. just as I helped invent the Live Action Roleplaying Scene in Berkeley. I know people who make games you buy; From Richard who wrote the creepy soundtrack for Soul Reaver 2, to Jeffrey, who FINALLY made a decent starwars game and sold his own film company to work at Skywalker ranch. I mentored under the person who made the first, cursor based maps that were plotted on spreadsheet, and if you give me a few minutes and an email address, I will send you a copy of Tetris I made, in MICROSOFT EXCEL. I was GIVEN a copy of macromedia professional studio 8 by a independent game studio for some ideas i gave them, and I helped (through my friend AL B.) implement some ideas for a game that showed some innovation on the XBox.

I am given an employee discount at two different chain stores for the gaming advice I offer them, and have been called in to train employees in market dynamics. Sony tried to buy me, when I was working in Berkeley for some work I did, but I was not wanting to go back to Japan. I had a physical meeting with an executive, who was authorized to fly me back in two days with a three year contract. I was also meeting with Hot Topic, who wanted my help in some ideas. My permanent job at that time was Sr. Data Systems and Logistics Analyst for International Operations and Customs Compliance for William Sonoma, Inc. I built their entire tracking analysis system, sourcing the largest and most prominent homewares and cookwares retail chains in the US, with no training. I had, and have still only had, one incomplete semester of community college, in which I built and sold a disk of games I developed in my Introduction to Structural Programming in an Object Oriented environment.

I have a pretty extensive background in network portal conceptualization, and data architecture... completely self-taught, and

and though I am bowed into lesser pay for job security right now, at my contract rate for individual work, I can earn enough to buy a ps3, peripheries and two games.... in one day with some overtime.

currently I federally reports activity on the energy grid of the US, as Sr. Energy Settlements coordinator for one of the big four in the Energy industry, which includes 39 interpenetrating companies in a shared investment structure. As a liason, I advise the US govt on their data capture, provision and analysis regarding energy demand, provision, and marketing. This is the largest and most complex market in the world, and I am one of the wizards working to make it work for humanity's advancement.

made a game controller, did ya>? that's neat! I like belgium, wanna visit, so i can buy the guys who hold the FL Studio community a beer and some friets (or whatever)!

QUOTE(raum @ Nov 17 2006, 07:40 PM) oh, so you worked for a company that got scissored out of the gaming industry by microsoft... hmm, biased much? Do you still work in gaming. i'd love to but my expertise is needed elsewhere...
no. not biased at all. in fact I like MS. They are doing very good in software. Vista is gonna be good and they took quite a number of customers into account creating it. All respect to them! I mean that.

I do NOT like people killing off Sony only because "$600 is expensive for a games console". They are NOT looking at what you get for the money. They are NOT comparing correctly. This $600 Sony asks for their premium machine is EXCELLENT value for money. A LOT better than MS's offering. A LOT!

As far as "my" company being scissored. Not entirely true. "My" company just thought they win in the accessory market with a couple good ideas - one of which very poorly implented. They did not fight MS, they fought Mad Cats, Logitech, Niko etc. as well. Too much of an effort! They overestimated the sales they'd gonna get and ordered WAY too much stock.


QUOTEas for me building games, I built games on paper, computers, and any other way to imagine.
good for you buddy. that makes me quite jealous as well. I would love to have continued working in the industry.... on engineering side, not the sales / marketing one I was in. Alas, no engineering in Belgium. No games are being made here. /sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" /> (hardly none)


QUOTEmade a game controller, did ya>? that's neat! I like belgium, wanna visit, so i can buy the guys who hold the FL Studio community a beer and some friets (or whatever)!
co-made yes. see above. /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

if you'd visit, let me know. I'd like to talk to this intelligent gaming republican from across the pond.

Ok, no comparing apples to oranges... comparing reviews to reviews.

360 takes the cake on all of three of the games I am currently playing. Gamespot is consistent on that.

Tony Hawk Project 8.
Call of Duty 3.
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance.

The issue above all else is Framerate and Fillrate related on the Ps3.

Tony Hawk Project 8 supposedly has some issues, but I have yet to see them on my 15+ hours of gameplay. I stayed away from skating games for more than 6 years, and it was because one day a good skating game with a sandbox style open gameplay based on achieving objectives would arise, and this is a good evidence that wait was worth it. Gametrailers.com has a video of the 360 vs the Ps3.

http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?fs=1&id=2662 shows the game. There are a few clipping issues, and some odd bounce anomalies to the rag doll physics on the 360, but the textures just don't look as washed out. Gamespot gave TH:P8 a 7.9 on the 360, and a 7.3 on the Ps3. IGN gives TH:P8 a 7.8 on the 360, and a 7 on the Ps3.

Call of Duty 3. The Game is fun, the graphics are not *that* demanding, but the immersion into the environment has people actually watching on edge. The multiplayer is where this shines, as the antiquated weapons in the game make for real stategizing. You can't just hammer down, you have to actually be cunning. The textures on the 360 look more like my own gear from my ship, and the Ps3 look more flushed out.

Gamespot says: QUOTEIt is missing a couple of features that its Xbox 360 counterpart contains, and the frame rate is far less reliable in this version, but the overall intensity and playability of Call of Duty 3 remains intact, despite these few issues. Gamespot gave COD3 an 8.8 on the 360, and a 8.2 on the Ps3. Another .6 advantage to the 360. In fact, at Gamespot, COD3 got a better score on the 360 than Resistance OR ANY OTHER GAME did on the PS3! Resistance gets a 9.1 at IGN, but so does F.E.A.R. on the 360. also, as a WWII buff of sorts, the maps of the Resistance world bug me, and with a sense of how the defeat of germany frames certain parts of Europe, anyone would see why.

Marvel Ultimate Alliance is better on the 360, and gamespot took down their review saying it was better on the Ps3 which is curious,.. They took down their rating of the game on the Ps3 and I had to look elsewhere for a comparison rating. IGN gives Marvel Ultimate Alliance a 8.2 on the 360, and a 7.9 on the Ps3. Being that Gamespot gave Marvel Ultimate alliance a 8.3, we can conclude their score with the Ps3 version will be AT MOST on par with the 360 or MORE LIKELY, slightly less.

Those are the three Games I am playing at this point, and each of them scores higher on the 360.

The only other I played recently was Tiger Woods PGa 07, and it ties on the consoles. That means it takes a GOLF game with mostly static graphics except a flying ball to let the Ps3 stand up the 360, at least for now. Or, maybe NOT

That is MY research into a cross-console comparison of the games I am playing. Game Over, lil' Flip. waka-waka.

My general beef with the Ps3 graphics is twofold:
a lack of texture and contrast, no matter how you adjust the set, black never looks black.
and
a lack of depth when running. Like when you are on a halfpipe in TH:P8, and the paneling looks "painted on" because the fill depth is too shallow.

----

I don't want Sony gone, I want Sony to get some hubris so that whoever ACTUALLY gets crowned in the console debate EARNS it FOR GAME CONTENT AND GAMEPLAY AND GAME PERFORMANCE. So far, the PS3 is not getting my attention for this, and the critics seem to unilaterally agree.

AND The amazingly awesome Motorstorm racing game actually launched for the home consumer as a 720p resolution at 30 frames per second, compared to the 1080p at 60 they were showing everyone at TokyoGame Show. ouch!

yup. i have made the same comparisons already on the same sites and your quotes are true.

where do you have that Motorstorm story from?

http://psinext.e-mpire.com/index.php?ca ... 6dacdf3c82

QUOTESimon also confirmed that high dynamic range lighting effects are present (such was readily apparent), and that the game would be targeting a resolution of 720p.