ADN

Adam could have been an ignorantly blissful beast of a raping cannibal, breeding children from Eve and bashing them open like coconuts on the rocks of paradise, and IN IGNORANCE of his action, he would be sinless, no matter how atrocious his actions. He would develop into something greater, and finally be ready to assume his power, when properly evolved

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Entire genocides among the sons of Adam would have been executed with the innocence with which a child dismantles a living cricket

Interesting topic. First of all would we have gone on some mass killing spree against each other. Individuals can have wires crossed but the average person doesnt feel compelled to kill its own kind for no reason nor do animals. There has to be incentive or an instinctive reason to kill. The Garden of Eden was a place where all was provided for. No need for great wars to be fought for power, wealth or land. No need to fight over religion because God was there walking among them. Individuals would sometimes kill but i dont think you could convince an army of people to kill because its a horrible experience and you risk your own life. Why do it if all your needs are being meet.

Would we even evolve if there was no competition? The random mutations that make evolution possible would still occur but with no competition for resources there would be no losers and no extinction. There would be no weeding out process so how would man evolve in a specific way. All mutations would mingle with each other.

I also think developing in the presence of God would have an accelerating effect on our consciousness as well.

I think the individual conscious can evolve but you cant transfer that to your kids by birth.

But keep in mind, that according to the Bible, this Olam (or world) is not the world that Eden was in

Well i think the first question would be where in the Bible or maybe what religions Bible? Is this ( below ) the stuff your talking about and if so which world is The Garden of Eden in? Also where are the teachings of Jehosophat to Moses? Thanks

Kabbalah distinguishes between four different "worlds" or "planes":

Atziluth (אֲצִילוּת), or "World of Emanations", on this level the light of the Ain Sof radiates and is still united with its source.

Beri'ah (בְּרִיאָה) or "World of Creation", on this level the first concept of creation ex nihilo however without any shape or form. This is also where the Highest Ranking Angels are to be found.

Yetzirah (יְצִירָה) or "World of Formation" on this level the created being assumes shape and form.

Asiyah' (עֲשִׂיָּה) or "World of Actions", on this level the creation is complete, however it is still in a spiritual level. At a later stage there is the 'phyisical Asiyah' comprising our phyisical world with all its creatures.

Actually, The Qabala (Qoph Beth Lamed) or Kabala (Qoph, can also be considered "K" in some texts on Hebrew.) The Qabala is a oral tradition of the commentary on the Torah, and how it relates to to the development of man according to many different (and sometimes opposing views.)

The best anaology is perhaps "Kung-Fu" - many different masters of many different schools, different techniques, but all capable of being integrated if you understand a few essential truths that unify the aims and actions of all who study with ANY sect.

As for the "Four Worlds" model you mention, that is the concepts held in the Sepher Denudata, particularly in the Aish Metzareph - which is basically a description of how the Divine Providence of El is distributed in four parts, among his creation.

It is really funny for me to see people who think since they have been exposed to this one concept, they should start a foundation and charge people to hear their lectures. This is the "elementary" education to equilibrating the components of yourself with the revealed forces of Briat Ha-Olam, or as it is mistranslated "Creation". It's rather like someone who watches Karate Kid, and decides to open a dojo and start teaching people martial arts.

If you want to believe Eden was some peaceful eutopia fine. I can neither prove my hypothesis, nor reveal certain things that pass through my own father's bloodline from the place the Jews claimed as their chosen land; any easier than you can convince me otherwise. I never intended Vertical University as a place to convert, or for people with different views to try and force each other into one standardized belief or opinion. This is a OPEN discourse. Most of Jewish culture and belief is adopted from other sources. So, I simply ask you to consider that Eden was a place where nature was far more unbridled, and that the Kerubs that guard it keep man from coming into contact with things that are compelled to action by his own radiance of Divine Providence, and he must be prepared to be ready for that responsiblity. Just consider, Paradise is a word for "Hunting Ground" and the first Nephandi Malik Ha-El (Profane Angels that chose to rebel from God) were also hiding in the world known as Eden.

. First of all you never explained what your version of The Garden was. . I took your Man killing Man with no guilt hypothesis as an interesting what if. The point of a what if is to knock around ideas. If I knew you were talking about a different version of The Garden I would have asked about that first before spending time thinking about the what if.

I posted a question and you came back with " But keep in mind, that according to the Bible " as the starting point for your additional comments on Eden. You have to know by now your talking to a Christian and that I and most who read that are going to think your referring to the modern bible. You have me reading genesis .the index and concordance and searching the web about Eden and different worlds wondering what i missed .It would help if you made it more clear from where your teachings come from.

If you want to believe Eden was some peaceful eutopia fine

I never said anything about what i believe when it comes to The Garden of Eden

I never intended Vertical University as a place to convert, or for people with different views to try and force each other into one standardized belief or opinion. This is a OPEN discourse

First of all you cant force some one to convert. Im not the type to go knocking on doors but if i were i would be looking for lost sheep not trying to create one. Almost everything i have written on this site has been in defense of or a defining of my beliefs in response to questions. As for why always the same stuff, think about where your at. People dont seek out this site to talk about religion. I know i didnt. There are very few hear willing to even talk about this stuff and since christianity is the more commonly known religion on this site your not going to be able to avoid it. I gave you opportunities to talk about things. You could have talked in depth about different versions of Eden. I asked about Kabbalah and the different planes or worlds. I gave you a written invitation .

Just to be clear I was genuinely interested in your version of creation and always enjoy reading your posts. As an offering of variety im going to post parts of creation stories that I liked from around the world. Feel free to add on

Pete wrote:

theseeker wrote:Look, I'm fucked up and the next time I log in I'm probably going to be fucked up, so...... Can someone put that long shit raums talking about in english, 21st century english, instead of early, never been heard in a real long time anglo saxon....

God told Adam & Eve to NOT eat the fruit from the Tree of "Knowledge".

Yet, God PLANTED that tree.


So, if God didn't want Adam and Even to eat from it at all, why would he plant that tree?
Doesn't that contradict the situation?
Why would he create it at all, and put it in their presence?

There must be some reason why.........


He told them NOT to eat it, by that very fact, he gave them a choice. He gave them the choice to NOT eat from it.


Satan egged Eve (and through Eve, Adam) on to take the choice of eating from the tree.
That was the opposing choice.


Straight up, that sets up the idea of Evil being the opposite of Good.


And begins the idea of implications of one's actions. God WANTED Adam and Eve to face those implications. "Should I or shouldn't I?" It's like in cartoons where they have the good conscience and bad conscience, God & Satan, Good & Evil, each proposing what the person should decide. They both say what the implications are.
It's just that Adam & Eve jumped the gun, and got themselves stuck into facing implications a bit too early. But yet again, why didn't God just plant that tree later on?

I don't think they ate too early. In fact we don't know how long they were there before they ate.

They were given 2 commandments: 1) not to eat the fruit and 2) to multiply and replenish the earth. They weren't given a time frame for 2) but they couldn't accomplish 2) without breaking 1). So God gave them a way to sin without doing anything horribly wrong, so that mortal earth could begin.