The Mitchell Report

[AYHJA]

That little press conference where Rocket played that recorded convo definitely put some doubt into the statements. The guy that I heard on the phone didn't sound like a guy who was telling the truth...Seems like he had his back to the wall and made some shitty moves...Either that, or Rocket talked to him in private and they agreed that the best course of action is to cast some doubt on the Mitchell report...This isn't a victory for Rocket by any means, but it does give him some sting I think...

[trashtalkr]

Yea I agree. That conversation really put some doubt in my mind also. Especially the part about his son being sick. He might be doing this just to get money to help his son

[AYHJA]

OK...The majority of people seem to be on the side of McNamee...They're saying, 'The majority of his story sticks'...Well, maybe its just because I'm a minority and can understand somewhat of what its like to have the odds stacked against you, I have a hard time believing him...And its not just cause I want to believe the Rocket either...But the evidence of why people believe McNamee, and not Rocket is confusing to me...

First off, McNamee used to be a cop...Right, that's the profession you want to go with if you need help, but if you're reaching for your fucking wallet when you're pulled over for something 'suspicious', look the fuck out...

Oh...McNamee got in trouble as a cop...For what..? LYING in a fucking RAPE case of all things...Dude kept stained syringes and gauze for 5 years in a beer can...Oh yeah, all that shit's normal...Dude is a walking case of credibility...

On the other hand, we have The Rocket...Probably the greatest pitcher ever...Knowing what we know about McNamee...How is it that we just decide he's the most believeable..? If right now, somebody blasted your name over the television and said you were a liar and a cheater...75% of the damage is done...At this point, what would he have to do clear his name..? Look calm in front of a billion people who have probably already decided his lying..? If they had told him to get up and throw a strike if he's telling the truth and he threw one in the dirt, that would raise more doubt in my mind than this dude McNamee...

The Godfather of the steroid, Jose Canseco, who has done nothing but snitch on players...Called McNamee a liar...Right then...

Oh...And who can accurately recall a conversation they had 5 years ago..? :?: Andy Pettitte supposedly gave a disposition that he and Roger talked about HGH...He says Roger told him he used...But I guess nobody ever thought to ask him did he tell Roger he used...If he's creeping HGH from his dad...I guess we just gonna believe him too because it's convenient...Has nobody ever been in a situation where some friends get in trouble, and rather than see you walk free when they get their asses kicked, they throw you in the mix to..? Show me someone who has as much to loose as Rocket, saying Rocket juiced, and it will have more sway...

Shit man, I can't remember the shit I talked about accurately day before yesterday...Again, I'm not saying I believe Rocket, but I definitely don't think I believe one over the other...I call this one a Stalemate, cause there is nothing that can totally vindicate Rocket...

[trashtalkr]

Yea, I don't know why the majority of people are siding with McNamee. He has been shown to be a liar over and over again. I definitely do not trust what he is saying. I also don't think that Clemens is entirely accurate either. Pettitte said that Clemens talked to him about HGH and about using it. I believe Pettitte about that and I believe Clemens when he said that he didn't use steroids. I think Clemens is taking the extreme stand to make his point, but Pettitte has always been shown to be a stand-up man who has all the credibility in the world.

[AYHJA]

I even believe that TT, but we've heard from several people already that if you put Andy on the stand and asked him if the world was flat he's say no, but after careful examination he'd probably end up saying yes...

We don't know the circumstances by which that disposition was gathered, or the extent of questions that were asked to him...

If I'm Roger Clemens, who obviously is interested in protecting his legacy...Tell ANYONE with not as much to loose as him, that he's doing illegal drugs..? I mean, from that point of view alone, lets consider this...If A-Rod was doing something wrong, who would he be more likely to tell assuming both were 'friends'...Derek Jeter or the backup 2nd baseman..? Andy is a good player, not a great one...He may have been a good friend, but definitely not one I'd trust with some incriminating evidence...

If I had to assume something, I'd assume Roger got a hold of some HGH...I'm not sure he's the steroids type, but I think SOMETHING went down...But McNamee..? Please...

[darklighter1]

First off yeah McNamee is a scumbag but I can't see how in this matter you can doubt him. he said he gave injections to Knoblauch, Pettite, Clemens, and Clemens' wife. All have admitted to getting the shots except Clemens. Why would he lie about the Rocket? He gains nothing.

Clemens was my all time favorite player since I was a kid along with Dan Marino in football (and I'm a Sox and Pats fan!) but he has really disappointed me on this one and I think he is a giant liar without a leg to stand on on this issue. He was caught in too many lies yesterday and he threw too many people around him under the bus yesterday including of all people his wife!

He should be in a new movie "Misremember the Titan". Yeah I was saving that one up.

[AYHJA]

Like I mentioned, 'Why would he lie,' isn't really a valid question...The guy was known for being a liar prior to all of this...If you lie in a case and loose your job...That pretty much disqualifies you for needing a motive to lie right there, doesn't it..?

Secondly...I mean, lets look at this thing the right way...Why would he tell the truth..? He's a physical trainer to the most well known pitcher in the world...He wasn't forced to testify...He could have told Senator Mitchell, "I don't know what you're talking about..." He could have said, 'Rocket, they're asking me questions, and if you don't give me ___ , I'm telling'...

What would it take for you to rat our your friends and employer..? Think about it...

Also, we now know that McNamee had no idea his conversation with Clemens was being taped...He wasn't on the tape saying, "I am telling the truth, you know you're a fucking liar Rocket..! Had you given me what I asked we could have avoided all of this..." Instead..? "Tell me what you want me to do, Roger, I'll do whatever you want..."

What's the motive in saying that..?

[trashtalkr]

You're right A, that taped conversation does not look good for McNamee at all. He looked desperate and it really put a whole in his argument, along with the fact that he is a chronic liar.

But, while Pettitte may not be one of the best pitchers ever to play the game, no one has doubted that his character is solid that he is a trusting guy. I'm not sure I buy your example of the world being flat. Everyone seems to agree that Pettitte would not lie. If Pettitte is a trustworthy guy and a great friend to Clemens, then he is someone that Clemens would confide in.

McNamee may lie for the fact that Pettitte and Knoblach aren't that amazing of players. He said that they both took HGH which was not against the rules when they took it. It was completely legal and accepted in baseball. In order to try and make his case stronger, McNamee could have made up the fact of Clemens just so it looks like a bigger case than it actually is. Actually, I have no doubt that Clemens took HGH, but like I said, it wasn't wrong back then. I'm pretty sure that McNamee lied about the steroids just to make his case look better

[darklighter1]

In the past he lied about the rape case which got him fired and he lied about steroid and HGH use with his clients when asked to spare them and himself obviously. But now the same group that went after Bonds was investigating him and Radomski, they had the goods on him for sales and distribution of illegal narcotics. They told him if he cooperated with the Mitchell investigation he would be alright. They told him and Radomski to speak to Mitchell and as long as they didn't lie they wouldn't be brought up on charges. He wasn't forced to name anybody in particular, he just told what he knew and who he was involved with. Gave dates, events and people. Why didn't he say Pettite was also on steroids or Knoblauch?

The conversation he had with Clemens, he said he did feel like others were listening so he kept his answers vague. Think about it when you listen to that conversation, what would you do if you were Clemens and accused of something you didn't do? Wouldn't you when asked by MacNamee, "Roger what do you want me to do?" say something along the lines of, "Whaddya mean what do I want you to do? Stop lying! Why are you saying I did this stuff when you know I didn't! Why did you do this to me man?". Instead everytime MacNamee asked him the question...Clemens would say "I just want the truth" And MacNamee would say "it is what it is". I know I would rail this guy if he were ruining my name. But Clemens and MacNamee were both talking in circles because Clemens knew it was being taped and MacNamee was pretty sure it was but was hoping to stay in Roger's good graces. Once the tape was played on national television though the gloves were off.

[trashtalkr]

I'll reply to that a little later when I have more time, but I thought I'd let you all know that Bonds failed a drug test in 2001 when he set the record for homers in a season:

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