ADN

Are we still thinking about this thread..?

Sin is "taboo", and nothing more, nowadays.

people say "don't do these things," so they can turn around and do them,.. and get a rush when they do that which is *forbidden.*

::yawn::

the concept of sin, is simply that, a concept. Never does "God" say mankind has sinned to a point of redemption on a global level, until the new testament, and well after the end of the origin of "Christianity". He tells the Shemite/Israelites what to do in order to maintain his covenant. but he offers no bogus reward for kissing his ass, or doing what he says. What a marvelous Greek romance.

the taint of "original" sin is more the focal point of the New Testament,.. as it fits perfectly with hellenistic philosophy, and greek influence, rather than with Hebrew mysticism.

"sin" in Phoenician "EshMoon" (the origin of Greek and Hebrew) istranslated as a birth mark, bite mark or blood stain. Else wheres, it means an affliction which discolors the pelt or scars the hide, or some such mark of inflicted damage which is not healed or refuses to heal (i.e. a scar or a wound that refuses to close). Sin, in the annuls of the piety of Babalon prevents a animal from being sacrificed to Baal, for it is "imperfect."

Anyone else find it *funny* how this "God" who demanded the Caananites all be killed without quarter adopted their "Evil" practices of their "Gods" as metaphors of the essence of his "Chosen People" or is it just me?

vertical,
raum

^^

Exactly what I was thinking... /:D" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt=":D" />

Can you explain on that Raum?

ok, explanation forthcoming... when you tell me what to expound upon.

Essentially what I am saying is that according to the textual recording of the history of the Jews,.. they were commanded to defeat the Caananites, the Edomites, and many other branches of the people who are also known as the "Phoenicians". The most inherent flaw is the records of this are written in Hebrew (Ebroon), which is a broken derivative of the Proto-Hebraic "Eshmoon" language family of the "Phoenicians". So, by the writ of the Bible, A God with a Caananite name told the "Israelites" (who are basically cousins of the Caananites) to destroy their cousins, to take their land, and they also took their culture, and in a sense took many of the elements of what God so despised in them. As a result the Israelites (now called the Jews, for they worshipped Yah-Va-H) were sent into slavery in Babalon, and their temples were destroyed by their own God; until they were released and escaped. Somewhere along the Prophets started saying the "messiah" (anointed one) would basically come and purge what was left of Judaism of all the inherent corruption it had picked up from the victory and slavery that had been intended by their own God.

I wanna see a show of hands from people who think this makes a damn bit of sense,...

The alternate is that the book is not objective history, but a careful and deliberate synthesis (probably refined at least three times) of different UNRELATED holy books or nonwritten contexts from all kinds of different cultures and traditions from a time when there was no standard religion or Dogma or Doxa, the written and behaviorial elements essential to "standardized religion". The resulting "book" (even before "translation" out of "Biblical Hebrew") is so confusing and contradictory that any attempt to make sense of it as a single book or linear story is unintelligible and can only be attempted with complete ignorance of the original languages, cultures, political climates, histories, and geographies of the region, as evidenced in any capacity.

Of the Torah it is said, it is an illusion built of many truths. The book is not a lie. It is a compendium of truth in which all the words in it are true,.. but all the statements in it must be contemplated for their essential key. not their "apparent meaning".

does this clarify?



vertical,
raum

I think so. I have to think about this one. I don't agree with it but will have to do some research about the history....

can you tell me what I said you disagree with, specifically?

I always encourage people to do their own research. If my own research does nothing more than make people educate themselves more, than it is more than worth the effort.

However, I also caution people to not go into a heavy period of religious research with an initial bias, as it tends to encourage temporary(?) neurosis, if nothing more

vertical,
raum

So sin is simply our imperfection?

Which invites the thought that Hadem was indeed perfect before the fall..

But if he was perfect, how could he become imperfect?

Raum I disagree with why God told the Israelites to wipe out the Caanaites. The Caananites were very immoral and going against what God told them. That's why He had the Israelites wipe them out. The Israelites went into slavery for a different reason all together. I can't go into depth now but I will later....

Trashtalkr, you said "Raum I disagree with why God told the Israelites to wipe out the Caanaites. The Caananites were very immoral and going against what God told them. That's why He had the Israelites wipe them out. The Israelites went into slavery for a different reason all together. I can't go into depth now but I will later...."

Look in the Bible or the Torah,.. and see what it says.

Arguably the Exile of Solomon and the fall of his temple is the downfall of the Jews. And see why that happened. Solomon killed three crickets in the bname of Magog, to appease his Shulamite wife."

This practice of killing crickets was a well known practice among the caananites, who would crush crickets, and use their liquid as an oil to annoint themselves in sexual rituals, often to Shaddai El Chai,"The Almighty Living God".. who is also the name used for the God of Abraham, and the name used for GOD everytime fertility or tribal strength shows up in the Old Testament.

However, Moses is told that Ahih Ashr Ahih is the God of Abraham, in the famous burning bush episode.

How can you say the Caananites were very immoral and going against what God told them, when their society was not bound by the ideas of morals we understand, and according to the Bible GOD NEVER KNEW THEM?

What I am saying is the sheer linguistics of the Bible is paradoxical. When God says to kill the Caananites, his command is recorded in Eshmoon, the tongue of the Caananites, and the root of Hebrew.

He tells them to not allow any Caananites into their blood pool, and destroy all evidence of them,.. but tells them in the language of the Caananites~! or at least that is the way it is recorded.

They take Caananite women for their wives, and Caananite treasure for their own. this is an atrocity in the eyes of God, supposedly, according to the prophet Nathan, Elijah, and countless others.

The first to do this, as we know is Rahab and her family; refugees from the Walled City of Jericho. A common prostitute who married into the tribes after covering the clandestine recon into Jericho by Caleb of the Tribe of Judah and Joshua (son of Nun). Rahab's marriage brought forth Boaz, a hero famous enough to have one of the Pillars of the Temple named after him. So all kinds of men begin to take wifes, and thus let the family's of these wifes live, and take the Caananites into their homes and villages which strongly affects their society, and God gets angry.

Disagree, fine. But look at the Bible, and tell me it says otherwise ANYWHERE.

vertical,
raum