ADN

We as humans are different from the animals this is agreed upon. Whether animals have a soul... i believe they do. To be alive as Ayhja has said you would require a soul.

This topic was debated in the reincarnation topic if memory serves me right but animals do have souls. The simple enough reason and I'm quoting A again is that energy which is soul cannot be destroyed or created so the world in a balance if you could call it that.

Animals exhibit many qualitites that would point out that they do like humans have souls. Qualities like loyalty. Take dogs for example, how loyal can they be and there are many great stories regarding that. Many might argue the fact that its just nature versus nuture, where animals can be taught things since they possess a lower intellect then us humans but loyalty cannot be taught in my books. There are many other qualities that animals possess that goes ahead to prove that they too have a soul.

QUOTE(AYHJA)Makes sense to me...

TT, what is your definition of a soul, and do you disagree with the one raum presented, and why..?

I don't know if I quite understand everything that Raum posted. I agree that animals have the will to live and the instinct of killing and so forth, but I don't consider that a soul. I'll try to take his piece by piece and let you know

QUOTEThe Neshamah is unique to people, and is \"sentience\" (animals rarely have this). This is the by-product of having eating of the fruit of the tree of the knowlegde of good and evil.

Sentince is like having a consciousness right? If so, then I believe that humans have this and animals never have this.

QUOTEAll animate things have a nephesh - the instinct to kill eat and rut - and yield to the natural perpetuation of life and death.

Yea, animals do have this, but I don't consider this instinct as part of the soul.

QUOTEThe Neshamah is unique to people, and is \"sentience\" (animals rarely have this). This is the by-product of having eating of the fruit of the tree of the knowlegde of good and evil.  


I didnt realise this before..... raum what do you mean by "animals rarely have this" and if they do have it then does from your prespective do they have a soul?

http://www.ayhja.com/af/viewtopic.php?s ... 2964#92964

If animals don't have that, I don't know who does...

And TT, how can an animal NOT be conscious..?

I don't think they have a consciousness of what's right and wrong.

TT, right and wrong is different for everyone. Remember what might be percieved right by everyone might not neccesarily right. As such you cannot say that animals do not know the difference between whats right and wrong. What might be right to them might be wrong to you or you might not even know what they are doing it right for them.

^^
Indeed...

How can an animal not have a sense of right and wrong, when they can be trained to be housbroken..? Damn TT, you ain't making no sense right now...

You know, you guys do have a point.. how do animals not have a sense of right and wrong? Even if you think about plants, which are currently not in the skope of this thread, they can learn to go around objects if placed in their way when growing.. or if you kill some of their roots.. anyway.. someone's gonna tell me off for lying about that that isn't really a knowledge of what's right and wrong..

But, I'd have to agree that animals do have a sense of right and wrong.. and do have souls..
Why? That's for you to decide.. /:D" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt=":D" />

sense of right and wrong is tremendously different than "knowledge of good and evil."

and this word "animal" is as ambiguous as this word soul.

Technically, the word animal means " of the animus" which is the part of the soul called the "Nephesh."

matter exists in three forms "animal" "mineral" and "vegetable." All matter has REFLECTION IN SPIRIT.

Animals have a specific spiritual characteristic in common. Above this, many have components individual to them.

vertical,
raum

QUOTE(trashtalkr)I don't think they have a consciousness of what's right and wrong.

I believe that they do. In fact I have seen it.


When my dog has knowingly done something wrong, the rim of the inner cornea becomes blue. This is not the reflection off the back of her eye (a tool to increase light intensity in the eye, thus see better in the dark). It's on the edge. Her eyes are brown, so the blue rim is quite distinctive. When she behaves herself or unknowingly does something wrong, it doesn't go blue. But when she knows she is in trouble, she gets that blue rim. It's like a physical manifestation of her guilty conscience..