ADN

Ah, well, "civil union" is just a schmuck term. You know why? Because the concept of marriage is really religious and since no church will ever accept gay marriage (I'm not talking about small heresies /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" /> Those can be founded by 2 people with the same beliefs /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />), they are trying to force the state to provide them with it.
Equality? My pulsading buttox if they care about it. Equality is the wrongest word ever when it actually comes to relationships and sexes butt(SHAKIRAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!) then again it's convinient for everyone. Differentiality is the key.
Basically, if you can get the civil benefits of "marriage" with "civil union", the rest is just stuff for consumption for tabloids and other press.

If you ask me, in the name of "equality" women have screwed up our world and we've entered the dark ages where sex is something you can only see on a screen butt(SHAKIRAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!) have it rarely, thus the porn industry is growing so rapidly.

That shit doesn't just apply to kids who are adopted by a same-sex couple. You don't think a kid is gonna be made fun of if his mom's a stripper? A kid from New York... his father is connected. You don't think he'll be discriminated against. "Oh... your father is Frankie Four Fingers... we'll call you if anything opens..." A kid born into a German family... he'll have to put up with all the ridiculous Nazi jokes. A kid born into a Jewish family will have to put up with all the anti-Semitic bullshit. Everyone gets made fun of... you don't think raum's friend Zie has had to put up with her fair share of taunts?

Really, it all comes down to tolerance. Parents need to teach their kids to be more tolerent. And not just of same-sex couples... but of everyone. What do you say to your son when he says, "Look daddy, a pirate." lol

It always amazes me how people preach on about how racism shouldn't exist in our society, yet they have no problem attacking same-sex couples... It's fucking ridiculous.

Where you live, how old you are, and how much money you have doesn't really matter... my mom was about 17 when she first got pregnant... and my father was a raging alcoholic, so we barely had any money... yet we've got four kids in this family. lol

My brother is an assistant manager at Tim Hurtons, and his boyfriend works at the Windsor Casino hotel, and he's part of the CAW, the largest union in Canada. My dad's a part of it... he makes like $30/hour, and his benefits are insane. We're practically covered head to toe. My brother and his boyfriend just bought a place in December. It's a nice place, and they're really fixing it up. They put a new hard wood floor in the living room.

You make good points K, I can't really put up a rebuttal...You know how some shit just don't feel right, and you're so bias against it you just don't care..? LoL, that's how I am about this...

But its one thing if Frankie 4 fingers spawns a Son...That's his child...I wouldn't want Frankie 4 fingers to adop a child because of his lifestyle choice, no more or no less than I would same sex couples adopting...I just think there is a reason that nature says that man and woman make child, not woman and woman, and man and man...Natural selection so to speak...Now if men can start getting pregnant, and women can start knocking up their girlfriends..? That's pretty much God's will right there, feel free to fuck your kids up all you want...I want another child, but if my wife can't get pregnant again, I'm certainly not going to go and adopt, that's just how I feel...I must not be meant to have another kid...Or at least not w/my wife...I just don't push the issue on things like that...

I can accept that. I'm not here to change everyone's mind, you know? I don't want to force people to accept this shit. For people like you it just goes against what you believe. Who am I to ask you to change your beliefs, you know? lol All I want is for people to be a little more tolerant.

I mean, if you think it's unatural, that's fine... but what I don't want is people saying shit like, "This fucking fag," and "I had to deal with this ass pirate." My mom was telling me that this woman kept giving my brother a hard time at his job, and apparently she referred to him as "the gay one." That kind of annoyed me a little bit. I mean, is that shit really nexessary?

It all comes down to tolerance and respect...

Kramer, I didn't know you had a personal stake in this, I figured you were only stirring the pot. I can see now where you get your passion for this subject.

You know, I always say it's easy to sit back and talk shit when its someone else...I may feel that way now, but if my brother were to be gay, or anyone else close to me, I'm sure I may feel differently...You know, it's kinda like people that dont' believe in the death penalty, and then some drunken ass with 3 DUI's murders your baby girl on her way to her first dance recital...Kinda changes shit a bit, you know..?

But one thing is for sure, I don't look down on gay people, I've known and hung out with many people that were gay...I don't care, its not me...But I do feel like you have to draw the line somewhere, but also that's if you make teh decision to be gay...As mentioned, I'm not entirely sure that is something you can always control...And not to make a case out of you Kramer, feel free to draw the line anytime, but I'm just curious....How does that happen..? Do you think its a choice your brother made, or as a kid was he the one that always jumped rope and liked nice clothes, etc...Was it an in the closet for a while thing, or something he's always known..? Cause as a kid, we all had that cousin or friend with the suspect behavior, that guy that hung with his sisters more than his brothers, did a little too much neck poppin' and finger snappin', etc...And so when they get older, you don't care, don't feel different, or well, that's how I was...Again if its too personal, don't worry to discuss it, but you seem to not mind talking about it, so I am hoping you'll enlighten me, I don't mean this as disrespect....

as a sort of teacher for Ty, I can attest that he is a bit homo-disgusted, but not really homophobic.

My girl and I took him to the best burger joint in California when he came to visit, and even without the burger, Sparky's is still absolutely the best diner on the left coast. they haven't closed since the 1920's. and around the late 60's they found out they were right on the fringe of the area San Francisco's gay population had chosen as their own - The Castro. They are on Church Street about a block from Market Street. Which is why me and my friends would say "lets go to church" (which meant of course - let's go to the diner).

Ty went there, and the crowd is mostly kinds out tha club, be they gay, punk, goth, or straight (mostly the first three). Ty didn't like those two guys eyeing him up, but he didn't say nothing about it, nor even try to get them to stop. he just said "ewww..." under his breath. And he still ordered, and loved the food.
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I personally do THINK homosexuality is part of the human condition. and I think that it is biologically motivated in SOME, and others display it as a copin mechanism with a trauma they experienced, often provoked by a woman hurting them. I have met several people who claim to be gay who basicaly get bored with it, or finally heal. I have met others who are just looking for the next kink, and don't care what it is. I know others who were in loving relationships with those of the same sex. still others genuinely only find arousal with a particular gender, their own.

As far as adoption, let em. let the kids rotting away in orphanages play outside when they want to. a same sex couple can end up with custody of a kid fathered or mothered by one of the partners... so why not look and see how many of them end up fucked up. In the past, gay adopton has happened,.. with only one partner aplying for adoption, and the other posing as a "roommate" or "live-in friend." now, they want to OPENLY adopt. And being that approximately 10 MILLION children have been saved from the hell of being without a family by gay couples, it's a little too late to stop, and it would be inhumane to not give them credit for the happiness of those children.

despite what the media tells you, its not one handful of gay couples trying to get kids. because millions already do.

some 16 million children have a gay parent or guardian in this country. that's not going to go away.

give them "legal coupling rights" now... because what someone said earlier is wrong Marriage is not based in religion,.. its orignal base was in FAMILY.

and every kid deserves one.

Excellent post, raum. /:D" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt=":D" />

Ja, I honestly believe it's not a choice... it's more something that you discover inside of you. It's a part of you that comes out later in life. I mean, as a child it's hard to discover that you're gay because you don't understand anything about sexuality. It's the same with someone going through puberty. That's an extremely confusing time. Your voice is cracking, you've got some extra hair, and you're getting about a dozen hard-ons a day. lol I think it's something that you discover through experience.

Our society also plays a role in this. Look at the Sopranos, when Vito was found out. People were talking about him getting help, going into therapy. lol I mean, it's hard to come out when you've got that kind of pressure. I remember sitting in the kitchen with my brother's boyfriend... we were drinking a shitload of wine and talking. He was telling me his story basically. He's around your age, give or take a couple years, and he used to hang out with a bunch of "tough guys," so he was hesitant about coming out because people weren't as tolerant back then as they are now.

I'll tell you my exact reaction when I found out my brother was gay. My uncle came over and told me, my mom, and my oldest brother. He's a gossip whore and couldn't wait for my brother to tell us. :roll: Anyway... he told us and then left. My older brother was more ticked off at my uncle, and he just left the room. My mom asked me how I felt... My exact words: "I'm not surprised." I didn't say it to be an asshole or anything... that's just how I felt. I wasn't surprised.

When we moved to London for the first time it was hard, so to make it easier on us kids, my dad bought us all gifts and had them stashed in the house for when we got there. My sister got this nice doll. It wasn't a doll you could play with, it was more for decoration. My oldest brother got a basketball net, which we cemented into the driveway. I got a large bean bag chair, which I still have today. It rocks. lol My brother got gymnastic maps because he was into gymnastics at the time.

Anyway... I've rambled on for a long time... jesus. lol

I believe it is a choice, but one that a person has the right to make, and for some, it is more natural than others.

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time to wax religious.

many people think the story of sodom and gomoorah was about gays, but that was not the point. not until that became propaganda by a pope who was in fact homosexual, and got off on taboo. he made it such a evil wicked sin because he got off more on it that way. people do stuff like that all the time.

it was about the way they treated the messengers of god. that is why they were destroyed. they had lost respect for the divinity, as it may be present in the actions or words of men.

LMAO...

Yeah, I remember that night in the diner, and as usual, raum is right..! LoL..I don't consider myself homophobic, but that's cause again, I am crazy bias, I don't see how one man can jump off in the G-Spot, and go "ewww" LoL...I love women with a passion, goes beyond simply wanting to bang them, I find inspiration in them and admire them in many ways...If a guy find that in a guy, I reckon that's awesome for him...To each, his very own...

LMAO @ Kramer tho..! Yeah, the gymnastics mat and your repsonse was classic, lol...

I think tha't makes sense, I believe it is a choice, but man there are some cases, where its beyond obvious...When dude is 8 and thinks its cool to wear a skort...Ionno...I definitely think in more cases than not its a choice, and for some that choice is easy like raum said...But...Some peeps don't even seem like they require a choice...And those are the ones I worry about...