ADN

we do not worship the sun.

we worship at the altar of the sun, for it is the greatest metaphor. even when in the temple of the moon.

"what the sun does for the earth and its people, thus does the Lord of the Universe do for the soul and its people."

Ok..the whole proof thing kind of annoys me..

If God could be proven without a doubt, free will would be destroyed, and therefore so would God's love..

What if salvation was offered for believing in gravity? Whoop-dee-fuck, we are all going to be saved whether we like it or not.

All I have to say is that I see a lot more evidence for God than against, even though I could never prove anything..

And regarding worship and prayer and shit...I engage in both, I feel connected with God and become motivated to continue to live out his purpose for me. Am I just being schooled by some indoctrinated set of emotions? Probably not, but I'll say maybe. Even if I am, I believe more and more every day that I am going to bring about some huge positive changes in this world. The more I believe it the more likely it is to happen. But if I die and nothing happens, at least I left behind an empire that has been constructed to better the lives of others instead of destructing them. To me, that is better than doing nothing but developing arguments to justify my belief in the pointlessness of life and bringing others down (OK, a general statement...but how many athiests do you know filled with love and joy for the world?).

Just my thoughts..

QUOTE(AYHJA)My think is why are there seemingly so many people claiming to be atheist, rather than have the dispostion of looking around them, seeing some amazing shit that they don't understand, can't replicate, and just going, "Shit man, I guess a God is possible..."

Because they are abusing the term. They are saying outright "I don't believe in God", when really they don't realise they just mean they don't follow organised religion. You could say that atheists are super-selfish beings, thinking they are completely self-reliant, created themselves and run themselves without any help from anything.

It's just a tag, a label. And a label that is slapped on without much thought at all.

I agree with Aemeth on most things. (I don't think we have free will at all but that's for another topic and another time) There is so much evidence for God. I could (but won't for time-sake) go through many different things that points to a Creator/God/Supreme Being. Athiests refuse to look at this. I think Pete had it right when he said that Atheists are super-selfish. They never care to look beyond them.

About worship. Someone said why would you worship something that had no interest in you? I have an answer for that...you may not like it, but I think it works. The answer is that if this Someone is the Creator, then as someone who was created, it is your duty to honor those who created you. Even if you hate him or whatever, you have a duty to acknowledge your Creator.

Now, I don't think that God doesn't care about us. I believe He really does care for everyone He created. Which shows even more reason to worship Him

Seems like a bunch of ppl have this idea that God is a machine, on some Ben Franklin Deism shit..

A fuckin machine wouldn't send its son to save the world..Now that is a controversial claim that would take a good while to back up, but that is not the point. I am merely trying to point out that you cannot take one without the other. Either you believe God is personal, or you believe Jeshua was a tool used for some other means besides offering eternal life to the faithful..

I haven't thought this one thru really, did I leave any holes in that argument?

Sorry, I realize I'm way late to even be replying to shit that was said probably a week ago, this is healthy discussion, but I just can't seem to make as much time as I could before to be here ready to reply, but...
QUOTEIn my eyes, an athiest can only be an athiest if they are completely unaware of any notion of a supreme being...It is a state of ignorance, or maybe immaturaty...Like a young child...I don't think adults can be athiest, period.

Tell you what,
I'll grant you the "ignorant" remark because I really am ignorant of such a creature as you describe. Stripping it of all the human and therefore biblical qualities, the "traditional" god is, at least in my eyes, null and void. Do we agree?, that's not the creature you were talking about then, correct?, good, moving on. Changing on to a "Supreme Being", seems to me equivalent to changing your forum status.
No longer "God" (capitalized, for maximum effect, see?), you are now THE god, not God. If I understand this god 2.0, it's the one only the chosen can see, only some experience, and noone outside this circle is even entitled to speak of, since (and let's be fair here), it's an individual, subjective experience.
It's the one thing all should strive for, but you know what?...if ANYBODY needs an explanation as to why that is, it's me. With the threat of dammnation gone, (and trust me, my ass ain't going to hell) then frankly, what else is there?. Underachieving?, sure...do I lack that spiritual competitive drive?, apparently.

What I AM missing, is a convincing why. Is this about me dying?, loosing my individual consciousness and everything that makes me a human? are we talking about my soul?, what is the soul?. Would I retain some semblance of who I once was when I die?...these questions will all be answered soon enough. What is this guy's fucking role in that process?
Mind you, I'm still asking about the god outside religion. How about the true believers tell me why? I don't need a who, and I don't need a how...I need a why.

my understanding has always been that an atheist ACTIVELY DISBELIEVES in a "god". In other words, they refuse to acknowledge that it is even a possibility.

now an Agnostic on the other hand, just does not care whether there is a god or not. I consider myself an agnostic and I think many people that label themselves as an atheist are actually agnostic.

-vertical
emanon

heh

.ayhja.........We want to humanize our Gods, make them like us and that is how we define them...Or the majority of us anyway...Or well hell, I don't knod the odds, but that's what I mean...The sun does EVERYTHING one can attribute to a being a higher power...It gives and sustains life, it is everlasting, and it he most potent source of energy we know - thus all powerful...Yet, it can't be a God, or God, or a higher power because it has no interest in us..?

...The sun gives us all our physical needs not our spiretual needs.Raum discribed it in another thread by saying animals and plants have a life force.The sun could be there god if you want to think of it that way.They need nothing else.We have life force and a soul.The soul needs more than the physical.I dont know what your beliefs are but if your not getting more from them than the sun offers im not sure what the point is.God is not just a source of energy.

.ayhja.........We want to humanize our Gods, make them like us and that is how we define them

....Your going to have to explane humanize.I think if you go back to the multiple gods thread its clear you were the one arguing for a human type of god and i was taking the opposite stance.Dont make me start bringing that stuff over here.Again we may or may not look like him but he is pure spiret and were a whole bunch of other stuff..

.Trashtalker......About worship. Someone said why would you worship something that had no interest in you? I have an answer for that...you may not like it, but I think it works. The answer is that if this Someone is the Creator, then as someone who was created, it is your duty to honor those who created you. Even if you hate him or whatever, you have a duty to acknowledge your Creator.

I thought they made a good point.If it dosnt care about you what good is it?Peaple become religios becouse they want there lives to be impacted by it There looking for a relationship..Also who are we honering..the sun..the gallexy that gives it a home..the universe...the big bang ...what ever made the big bang,,,,oops were back to god.Why not just honer your mother.She made you and she cares.

I thought the idea for this thread was great.Can an aithiest believe in a ghost..If there not comfortable with out proof could they believe in somthing else with out proof....What the question has turned into is.. if you dont believe in a mainstream god how about a different god.Some thing that you dont have to worship or have a relationship with and dosnt care about you.It just exists.What exactly are you trying to sell these guys.The aithiest are saying what the hell do i need to bother with that for.Also im sure that being an aithiest dosent mean you cant apriciate nature in all its glory.You cant say ....look how this beatles shell shines in so many colors and how can you not believe in god when you look at that.An aithiest would say ..wow thats amazing....but why bring god into it.

The question no matter what you difine god to be will be ..why should i care. If you cant offer more than a ball of energy with no interest in your wellfare or help in the daily doings of your life than whats there to seek.

Usually i write these post than ponder a while before posting them, should have done that with the one above.Forget what i said in the rest of the paragraph after explain humanization of god.I shouldnt assume to know what your talking about based on one sentence.

That's it?...

Did I ruin the topic question by asking questions?