Post 9/11 Retrospective...

#21

Which brings me back to RAUM as my best source to balance this out, as of yet. RAUM, I hope you don't dismiss my probing as just morbid curiosity and as I said before, out of respect, N E O's identity, or the details of his calls are of little concern to me. I would, if possible, like to know if you have info. on the plane itself, whether it was in fact a 757 Boeing aircraft. If so, in your opinion, having possibly been around other aircrafts...

a. Would it leave much of a "trail" by flying so low to the ground (heat marks, skids...etc...)

b. How much of the craft would survive? (wreckage) what about it's wings?
I'm asking because a lot of debate has gone into this. The wings of both WTC planes sheared through the buildings, but I also know the Pentagon is just a tad more resistant.

I have a lot of other questions regarding this, but...open to anyone:
Can survivors ask for their loved one's names to be left out of these passenger lists?, I ask because there are inconsistencies (apart from the fact that the names of the hijackers are absent from pretty much every list I've looked at), the more common number of passengers being 64 (crew included).

#22

Here is my word on the subject, no definitive view.

The most stable account is linked above, by a US Aviation specialty that was there helping put the scene back together. He says he thinks a 737 hit the pentagon, right here:

"The plane had a silver body with red and blue stripes down the fuselage. I believed at the time that it belonged to American Airlines, but I couldn†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢t be sure. It looked like a 737 and I so reported to authorities."

The paint job is consistent with a 737, and this man knew his aircraft.

It is not unreasonable to assume that with a plane full of Boeing employees, that the flight was pretty crucial to happen. It may have been that they were all on a 737 instead of a 757. I am not sure which, and am not all that concerned. I have had last minute flight changes, including size of the plane flying from Pennsylvania to California. I am sure someone else had a delayed flight, a last minute change, right?

A word about basllistics:

I know guns and missiles. I have experience with these things, and have seen the damage caused by both. The damage done to the Pentagon was not caused by a missile, because the payload would have detonated in the building. Missiles punch a hole through the front, and DECIMATE the interior and the back. Much like a hollow point. The account is that a 200 foot explosion over the Pentagon. That can be nothing but fuel. A surface missile is incapable of creating an explosion that big. Nothing short of a ICBM (inter continental ballistic missile) would provoke that kind of explosion.

There is no indication of this being a missile strike, and it is not indicative of one. Furthermore, it is not indicative of a plane loaded with bombs being thrown at the pentagon by the Illuminati.

It is indicative of a precision strike by a plane. With a plane full of Aerospace professionals working with Boeing, it is likely that at least one of them would be able to control the descent.

I talked with Paul Noel, a former Aerospace engineer for Lockheed Martin who specialized in the field for more than 20 years. We discussed this for many weeks. His background was in the Civilian sector, mine was military security and counter-terrorism and he worked closely with NASA and the USAF.

He used to test descent patterns of aircraft and satellites and crash scenarios. He knows this by rote. He has ran scenarios like this. He is convinced that this is legitimate.

I am of a mind to agree, simply because I was involved in at least two cover-ups in the military, and they come off SQUEAKY. Its real life damage control that gets sloppy in terms of consistency.

Furthermore, they would not have to hit the pentagon. They already hit the WTC by the time flight 77 goes off course. America was already starting to throw blood on the Muslims in our country by that time.

vertical,
raum

#23

So take that.

#24

QUOTE
Furthermore, it is not indicative of a plane loaded with bombs being thrown at the pentagon by the Illuminati.
/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> Oh GOOD!!!!...glad we got that squared away.

Seriously now, so I gather from what you wrote that, such a skilled descent followed by a precise hit could not have been achieved by someone with only a few years of flight school? most likely an experienced pilot forced to execute this maneuver?
QUOTE\"But just as the plane seemed to be on a suicide mission into the White House, the unidentified pilot executed a pivot so tight that it reminded observers of a fighter jet maneuver.\" (washington post)

\"Aviation sources said the plane was flown with extraordinary skill, making it highly likely that a trained pilot was at the helm, possibly one of the hijackers.\" (washington post)

\"9:35. The hijacker-pilots were then forced to execute a difficult high-speed descending turn. Radar shows Flight 77 did a downward spiral, turning almost a complete circle and dropping the last 7,000 feet in two-and-a-half minutes. The steep turn was so smooth, the sources say, it's clear there was no fight for control going on. And the complex maneuver suggests the hijackers had better flying skills than many investigators first believed.\" (CBS news)

My other question was, would the make of the building itself account for the small-ass pieces left of the plane? I just cannot get over the fact that not even the damm tail fin was left
More photos (including landing gear)

...and as you all may or may not know, many attempts have been made to get the actual videos, but no-go as of yet, only a few frames have been made public, so still no view of the plane.
FBI:
"... information regarding the closed circuit television (cctv) obtained from Nexcomm/Citgo gas station, and the Virginia Department of Transportation is located in an investigative file which is exempt from disclosure ...""
CITGO-cam

...I'm getting a headache #-o

#25

here ya go, xen,.. some aspirin for that head.

what about Flight 93?

#26

lmao...Raum's got attitude

#27

[sarcasm] I think it was the aliens that hit the towers,man.[sarcasm] hate the psychos thst say that kind of garbage.

#28

Me too!!!!...I prefer those suit-n-tie 'yes' men. You know, the type that thought "we'll kick ass and take names in Irak and e'ting gonn be aaaaaaaawll right!", not psychos...can't call 'em psychos but...what should we call them?

RAUM...I'll take water over aspirin any day, and no, I really don't feel like going over flight 93 yet. If you don't feel like continuing this, is cool homez, I just didn't know you had this much insight into the Pentagon crash...sorry...I like questions, I ask quite a bit if I feel I can get answers.

#29

Just a quick little poll... How many here think we should still be in Iraq if we even should have gone in the first place?

#30

I have alot of insight, and even more speculation; much of it sound. Unlike many people's mine is pretty well based in fact.

Between
A professor of mathematics
A former Aerospace Engineer
Four veterans with combat experience
(myself the assistant armorer and security team trainer)
Countless security professionals
and others

Oh, yeah I also have the distinction of BEING ON GUARD WHEN THE AL QAEDA FIRST HIT THE US While we were in Iraq.

(we, the USS Shasta were on the same pier as the Reuben James, right in front of them. WE were the ship that pulled them all the way to Guam after they got their rudder blown off by an explosive device. I was flight deck shotgun at the time of the explosion, and was witness to the small boat attack. I am on military record as the first american to fire a weapon at the Al Qaeda. If I had a AR-15 with a "thumper" (Mark-79 grenade launcher), as I had requested I would have had the range to tear that boat up.) My 12 gauge shotgun had no effective range off the weatherdecks. My request to upgrade the deck security team to AR-15's and load the 50 caliber machine guns off the starboard side had to be sent to port authority in Iraq for some bullshit reason, according to the harbor master. I still think those bastards were paid to delay that request.

I got a "load what you want where you want on this damn ship until we get stateside after that." that was the shit.

I had two people on crow with stinger missiles, all 50 cals loaded, the forward 3"50 (that gun cuba shot on pearl harbor) manned, and we went auto shotguns, oh yeah - h&k all the way. And two snipes from the boom decks of the cranes.

Actually, just to say a bit about what you don't know about me.

I got an offer to go back to Iraq when all this started. The Navy called me up, and said, you just turned 28, and you can't be called back, lucky you. (I turned 28 the saturday after the the friday they announced the huge recall of naval personnel for Iraq.) Then they informed me they had passed my crits (critical stats - weapon qualifications, marksmanship, and physical evaluations) onto to private Security firms.

I was approached by a private security firm that handles physical security for contract workers, and would be riding around in a hummer with a 50 cal on mount. Prolly manning the gun. It woulda been more money in my pocket than I ever had. 20,000 for a two month tour. The people I would have been with got shot up bad. fuck that.

I didn't say this to brag, I actually did it to dispel the idea some may have that I am a book monger, who got no life or real life experience. All I see is people who put their theories on www.911ufoattacks.com who have no experience with combat, and all they want to do is point out the goddamn eye in the triangle on the pentagon lawn!~ I am not going to put up a web site about it, but I will drop some stuff here.

So, anyways, what about Flight 77 you want to know next?

Maybe we should make a forum thread for each of the flights, they really cannot be crammed all together.

Oh yeah, I started getting all this together cuz I was helping run an internet chat room, as a vox jockey at the time of the attacks, so I got alot of schoolin' about this, cause it was what everyone wanted to talk about, and I was hard pressed to drop such an important topic. It's actually the same chat room that I met ayhja in while he was trying to start some shit about The Knights Templar. :-$

vertical,
raum