ADN

yea but dont you (AYHJA) think that whas really goin' down in the government in neccessary to know in order to understand how they, if they are, manipulating our thoughts...

I can see what you are saying, but it seems hard to see how you can care about self-truth, but not even have a knack of interest for truths like this as well. I mean I am not crazy over it, but it interests me due to the overall search for truth that im lookin' for, nahmean?

actually, right now, you don't really need to become Fox Mulder to see how things are being run. There are many aspects, of course, but I can break down the more relevant "stuff" since you've all discussed "manipulation", etc.
A good percentage of people still believe Saddam Hussein was "somehow" involved in the planned attacks in NY. Furthermore, whether you think that or not, still some believe the Irak invasion was and still is, justified. As far as what's being brewed at home...AYHJA's attitude is simply a reflection of a much bigger mindset than just this forum.

People like feeling secure. North Americans, in particular, have become accustomed to this feeling in the confines of their own land. The downside to this?, well, for one, it's an illusion, on a global scale. Noone is 100% safe, I think we can all agree on this. Of course the risk of "something" happening to an individual grows as he/she leaves home, whether it'd be your house, or your land,. Most, if not all of us have been conditioned to distrust other people, and sadly attach this distrust to a nationality. This is shaped through media, mostly, and parenting sometimes. Why is this relevant? because for the average Joe and Jane in the US, all you need to know about the world, you learn from TV, sometimes the newspaper; travelling...well, Universal Studios is plenty adventure for them. This delicate balance of healthy media garbage and subsequent disinterest is VERY good, especially in times of war, such as now. Most North Americans couldn't have cared less about words like Jihad, extremists, fundamentalists, WMD's, Al-Qaeda, etc...and those concepts are old, older than pretty much all of us, much older. These days, we all "know" those terms mean a clear and present danger to your way of life and life itself. Betcha can't really tell me why, tho...and it really doesn't matter. What really matters is that you HAVE to trust those on top, to protect you from these evils, you don't really know why, and you don't care. You saw on TV 15 mins. worth of "all you need to know" about strange, angry, brown skinned folk and it's enough to keep you in your couch eat'n potato chips and hating countries you can't even point to in a map.
What's so good about this? well, for you, nothing really, but for your newfound superheroes it means you, out of fear, are willing to forfeit your rights and completely dismiss those of others, in hopes of returning to the way it was before, as long as they promise to protect you from imminent danger. It has always worked, as far as I know, it worked with Pearl Harbor, it worked with Cuba, VietNam, and it's certainly working today.
They are counting on your apathy, but you get a gold star if you fear and thus hate their/your enemy dujour.
Fear is a very powerful and extremely effective tool of manipulation, it works in politics as well as religion. It works best when the "danger" is intangible, invisible, taste- and odorless. Obviously, you are ill-prepared to face this awesome threat, but ALAS!, they are not. Just trust them...they know what they're talking about, and don't even bother doing your research...they know how much you hate that, they understand.
AYHJA's concerns, at least are focused on a higher understanding of existence...more than I can say for the rest of the poor fucks who simply let the gu'mmint do "their job" and consider that to be a day's work, THAT, is truly meaningless.

For a minute there, I was beginning to think that I may not sound like I need to be in this part of the forum...

Thank you, x3n (this is why I relish your being here as well) for putting into words what I was trying to say....The likelyhood of all reality says that nobody is manipulating my mind, and my thoughts...Just playing the odds...Do you think that the personal welfare of you, and your family, and families like yours, are more likely to be impacted on an earth shattering level (in essence, when your world is fucked up and in pieces, are you still thinking about the welfare of global humanity?) by a government conspiracy, or by some "dude" who decided to drink and drive..?

As x3n pointed out, we aren't safe, it is an illusion...Why am I to be worried about the gov't in regards to the welfare and well being of my own family, when a nigga can come from next door and steal everything I have, kill everyone in the house, just so HIS family can eat..? No gov't mind bending there necessary, ya dig..? All the bullshit in the world can't make me believe that the gov't is the root of all evil...Like it or love it, some people will just be on that side of the tracks, and is the enemy of EVERY one, including those in the gov't...

To imply that the gov't, and those that make it up, is on some covert ops, trying to sway the public is one thing...But I refuse to believe that they can alter my mind...They may alter my way of life...But, then again, what else is new...For every stick we shake at the gov't, they can probably shake two back...If not, I wouldn't be here, I would be a slave still...I would still be calling you "Suh" and dancing a jig...The gov't might not be all good, but they definitely aren't all bad...It's just the way you want to look at...The gov't as a whole is a collection of people...To influence a person, is to influence the organization...

I'm just not going to pretend that I care so much about global well being, when threats to me and mine are more immediate than who shot JFK, or whether or not I'm being poisoned by cell phones...I love everyone here, but what do I REALLY care about starving kids in Somolia..? There is an old proverb that keeps me in check, when I gets too ambitious about my thinking...

If there was nothing bad in this world, how would we ever appreciate what we have..?

AYHJA

QUOTE(AYHJA)

If there was nothing bad in this world, how would we ever appreciate what we have..?  

AYHJA

True...
but there's always room for improvement!

^
Err, that's not the point of the quote....For every extreme, there is another equal and opposite extreme to balance it out...Each time something improves, something else gets shittier, and vice versa, you understand..?

I improve the forum, but my Yahoo groups suffer, etc...Finding that balance is not easy, even for something as simple as dividing time to piss around here on the boards...People will always find time to cry about something, and you can't make everyone happy...So, it's best to do what you can, and pray for the others...

We need good, bad, and inbetween to survive, like it or love it...

AYHJA

One basic problem I find is that most heads confuse mindless entertainment with "balance", and thus end up perpetuating the cycle of feeling powerless and of course not doing anything to improve the situation. Escapism is SO far from being the answer, the shit ain't even funny. sure, we all need it, lord knows I'm a fucking Howdini if I don't feel like "dealing", but when you cease to act and leave it up to your "leaders", be aware that it is 100% your fault how shit turns out.
I remember hearing and reading how actors, and "regular" citizens were going to riot and move out of the country should the election not go their way...what happened?, nothing, a whole lotta nothing. Why does the government do what it does to the people its supposed to be serving?, simple, because it can, and you won't do ANYTHING about it, but bitch.

PS- People, this might/might not be the joint to recommend movies, but I feel the thread is appropriate. You should peep FARENHYPE 911, since we seem to be discussing "balance" as well. This, of course, is just so AYHJA stops accusing me of constantly Bush-bashing. For those who saw the M. Moore joint, this offers some very healthy counter-arguments (yes folk, if at some point you thought Moore was dishing out the truth, sorry...this is politics and during elections, propaganda reigns, hardly ever are "truth" and "facts" just that).

X3n:
Noooooooooooooooooooo! Farenheit 911 is a manipulation as big as the lie of the massive weapon. I don't like Bush but neither being manipulated by anyother one no matter if it comes from a person from my side, Wake up people!!!!!

Ahyja:
"For every extreme, there is another equal and opposite extreme to balance it out...Each time something improves, something else gets shittier, and vice versa, you understand..?" (sorry if i use that statement out of contest)
I disagree, i think, the theory of balance which is great for maths, physics and chemistry does not apply here, you said "We need good, bad, and inbetween to survive, like it or love it... "

No we do not need bad we gotta fight it, work twice the hard.
It's certainly probable that we won't defeat it but it's our duty to lead that battle always, we might not won the war but we will have built ourselves out of dignity and to me that's the only way to walk this life despite all the more promesing shortcuts life offers us.

PS: remeber english is not my native language sorry

QUOTENo we do not need bad we gotta fight it, work twice the hard.
It's certainly probable that we won't defeat it but it's our duty to lead that battle always, we might not won the war but we will have built ourselves out of dignity

hmm...strange, your "bad English" makes a fuckload of sense to me!=D> . These belligerent South Americans, huh?

well thanks, i meant "bad english" in the way sometimes i can use some turns i have in spanish that more accurate represent what i think but translating might lead me to non-sense expression.

bueno gracias, me refiero a que en espa†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬ ¢¢¬¢ž¢†™¢¢¬…¡¢‚¬Å¡‚±ol puedo usar giros o expresiones que definen excactamente lo que pretendo significar, no se si ustedes entienden lo que quise decir arriba?

se entendi†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬ ¢¢¬¢ž¢†™¢¢¬…¡¢‚¬Å¡‚³, mi hermanito, solo espero que de verdad, no solo entiendan, sino que analicen y pongan en pr†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬ ¢¢¬¢ž¢†™¢¢¬…¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¡ctica lo que lean aqu†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬ ¢¢¬¢ž¢†™¢¢¬…¡¢‚¬Å¡‚­. Lo †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬ ¢¢¬¢ž¢†™¢¢¬…¡¢‚¬Å¡‚ºltimo que se pierde es la esperanza, seg†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬ ¢¢¬¢ž¢†™¢¢¬…¡¢‚¬Å¡‚ºn dicen.