ADN

the key lies in the Natural Law..I will post a topic regarding this later..

what both of you said is starting to make sense to me, but it still just seems like the easy way out. it says that you can do anything you want to. it seems to be able to justify anything no matter how wrong it is. it seems that with relativism, that there are no morals or ethics at all because there is no right or wrong. you've gotta admit that there are morals and ethics, but that doesn't fit into relativism.

@Trashtalker...

I wouldn't necessarily look at it as an easy way out persay, the longer you live the more and more you realize that this life isn't easy...You were on the right note to suggest that what is in your heart being the ultimate judge...This relativity thing we are talking about is bigger than the individual, and can be looked at as serving a system of checks and balances...

You also have to see the duality in the matter...One system spawns or allows another to exist, that is beneficial...I say that morals and ethics are things that are created by man...That in itself makes the system very illogical, as the one absolute constant of CHANGE makes it so...Most morals and ethics are social adaptations, and aren't designed for everyone, or with everyone in mind...

One of my favorite quotes or mottos is: "If it CAN happen, it WILL happen..." It helps me to be free from worrying...To say I could take a rifle and sit atop of a building and snipe people is true...But "Lord God" has made it so that isn't an option to me...I have no desire to do those things...Yes I could, but I won't...Relativism is necessary cause we don't all value the same things...The amount of value we place on the things around us plays a big part on our behavior...The justification will come, when you remove yourself from a position to be the judge of it, ya dig..?

We have a system in place friend, that we might not understand, but I can assure you it exists...

AYHJA

ya, i think i dig what you're saying. it's starting to make more sense to me. that doesn't mean i'm believing all of it yet, but i can understand where you are coming from.

i know that there is more that goes on in this world that i don't understand or know about. that's what makes life so exciting....there is always more to learn

yea..

since nobody can completely know God's character, we can never know true right and wrong, but only our perception on it based on what we believe God's character to be.

So if we cannot know right and wrong (understand Natural Law) then how can we say something is right and something is wrong?

Absolute's exist, but since only God can understand them, we can only go by our indivual perception of the absolute's God has set. But if our perception of this is different, then you must consider this belief to contain some relativism

Absolute Relativism

The theory made famous by DeEje

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^^i'm game...i'll go for that theory

You all keep referring to god as a "he", as having "character", like there is some way to quantify an omnipresent being...you're failing to understand your own god, thus giving "him" human and mortal nuances and limitations. You're concerned about judgement and what's "right" in "his eyes". You CAN understand "natural law", you're simply ignoring it, cause it's easier to be disciplined than observant. AYHJA mentioned "checks and balances", why don't yall explore that angle?

how can you understand Natural Law?

If everyone perceives it differently, there is no way to logically say you understand it unless you are God..

Checks and balances, actions and consequences...causality, you don't need to "be a god" to understand how one thing directly or indirectly affects another, be it a thought or an action.

so you are saying we have the right to judge others? Only God can judge because "He" is the only one who can fully understand Natural Law because "He" created it in "His" perfection..