NBA Free Agency Guide (prior to 2010 - 2011 NBA Season)

[Habib]

How has the power shifted to the East?

I guess it depends how you look at it. In the West, only one team is a championship contender: Los Angeles Lakers. However, in the East, because of this free agency, the following teams are now contenders: Miami Heat, Boston Celtics, Orlando Magic & Chicago Bulls.

On a comparison of teams 1 through 8 that made the playoffs last season, yes I agree that the West are better in that sense. However, let's not let that fool us, because I think it was pretty clear that only the Lakers were championship contenders. But in the East this past season, the Celtics, Cavs & Magic were all championship teams.

I consider power in terms of the teams that can actually go the whole way and win the championship, not in terms of teams that won 50 games and made the playoffs.

I think it is a joke that you said that this Heat team will be great in the regular season and crumble in the clutch. WoW, you really think these guys are not now the favorites to represent the East in the NBA Finals? When these guys were on their old teams, they required double teams. If you were an NBA coach right now, tell me who you would double team right now if you had to in the 4th quarter with a team that has LeBron, D-Wade & Chris Bosh. And please why do you say that this Heat team will crumble in crunch time? Why? I cannot understand the reasoning behind it. LeBron James & Dwyane Wade have proven that they are big time closers and clutch players, so why do you say they will crumble in the clutch? I would really love to know a logical reason for that.

As it stands right now to me, East > West.

[Drew]

...are you serious? You're honestly saying Lebron James is a proven big time closer?

Go back and watch him give up in the playoffs last year and seriously tell me he's a big time closer. He had that one lucky shot against the Magic two years ago to win it, and that one monster game against Detriot...otherwise, he hasn't shown he's a closer at all.

And then there's Bosh....who hasn't even played in the second round of the playoffs...so his crunch time numbers are unavailable.

Wade is a good closer, and should be the one taking all the finishing shots, but the point is...with all those egos out there, crunch time is gonna be much different than "We're up 40 so we all are happy sharing the ball" time. That's when the alpha dog needs to step up...and it appears this team has three of them. It's not that they are not all good players independently, everyone knows that....the doubters are doubting how its gonna work when they put it together.

And if you're going to seriously consider that the Bulls are a championship threat...then you have to throw in the Mavs, Nuggets, Thunder, Suns, and Jazz at least...considering they're all better than the Bulls and would probably crush them in a 7 game series.

Are you even consciously aware that the reason you say there is only one good team out West is because you don't think any of them can beat the Lakers. Last season, the Mavericks were more likely to win the championship than the Cavs were in my opinion...but everyone knows I was never high on the Cavs.

The west has great teams with great talent, and if they played out east...they'd give a lot of these eastern conference teams a run for their money....even the ones you're labeling championship contenders.

[Habib]

Yes Drew, I am very serious. LeBron James is indeed a proven big time closer; a bigger and better closer than Dwyane Wade for that matter. I do not know if you are big on stats, but here are some stats if you are interested: http://www.82games.com/CSORT11.HTM

The reason why he has not had game winners and all that stuff is because the Cavs have not needed them much. They have been taking care of business with teams that they are supposed to beat, so he does not need to be hitting buzzer beaters. Now I am not comparing his clutchness to Kobe Bryant (Kobe Bryant is better in that category of course), but as an example, Kobe did hit so many clutch game winners this past season. But they were against teams like the Raptors, the Bucks, the Heat, etc. The Cavs took care of business and always had a comfortable lead playing with the teams they are supposed to beat, so LeBron has not had much need to be a "closer." It is also worth mentioning that that "monster game against Detroit" cannot be overlooked like that. In fact, I think TNT called it the greatest playoff performance of the decade (and one of the best in NBA history).

I also do not think he gave up in the playoffs last year. The Magic were just a better team than the Cavs and they defeated them. It was not a surprise or an upsetting series. The Magic beat them quite handily and confidently in the regular season games they played that season, and in the only game the Magic lost to them that season, the referee made a questionable call. They had nobody to guard Dwight Howard, Rashard Lewis, and Hedo Turkoglu that time. LeBron was the best player in that series but the Magic were a better team.

I am calling the Chicago Bulls a championship contender now because of the addition of Carlos Boozer (he will give them a good low & high post player) and the much needed bulls eye shooter that can stretch the floor in Kyle Korver. Furthermore, they have one of the league's best point guard in Derrick Rose and one of the league's leading rebounder in Joakim Noah. If I am not mistaken, Carlos Boozer and Joakim Noah are among the top 10 rebounders in the league. They have also employed Tom Thibodeau as their head coach: he was the brain behind the suffocating Boston Celtics defense (best in the NBA to me). What more could you ask from a championship contending team? And let me note that I called the Bulls of now (after free agency) a championship contender and not the Bulls of last season. That being said, although the Bulls of last season looked bad, the injuries that they had really affected their seeding. Barring injuries last season, I think they should have been a legit #5 seed. They were a better team than the Heat.

Sorry, I cannot throw in the Nuggets, Jazz, Thunder & Suns as contenders. The Mavs highly disappointed last season by losing in the first round. The scores of the 6 games in that series (except game 1) really does not indicate how much the Spurs punked and upset them. The Nuggets are not yet ready too -- K-Mart's knee is wearing out (I think) -- they were also first round losers in the playoffs to an injury riddled & shorthanded Jazz team. They just are never focused enough in a series to win. The Thunder are far from a championship team (yet), they do not have a true center and power forward. The Suns overachieved in my opinion last season; do not expect the same miracle from them next season.

For the so called "doubters" doubting this new Miami team and how they will put it together, I wonder why. KG, PP & Ray Allen were able to do it. There is no reason that LeBron, D-Wade & CB4 cannot do it.

***I thought I would mention that what I said about the Bulls is based on what things look like on paper. Nobody knows how things will play out on the court in sports.

[Drew]

Everything that you said in the beginning works into why I, and many others, don't considering LeBron a good crunch time player.

First and foremost, in my opinion, statistics are worthless when it comes to crunch time. I'm sure those stats were based on some complicated formula with a certain number of variables and situations that were pre-determined to be "clutch". To me, it goes way beyond simple stats, scores, and time remaining.

And a lot of what you're said circles around the Cav's beating teams...crushing them usually...during the regular season, but, man, no one cares what your regular season record is when playoffs come. You don't win championships for the regular season. I would argue, when we're talking legacies and the stuff champions and great players are made of, particularly when it comes to crunch time, the regular season is altogether irrelevant. Personally, I don't care what his numbers were in the regular season in pre-determined "crunch time" situations.... I want to see if he's going to carry his team to victory in the playoffs when they're leaning on him to do it. No game in the regular season carries nearly as much importance or clutch factors as a playoff game, particularly an elimination game.

When I said "last year" I meant this past postseason, when they lost to the Celtics. I agree with everything you said about the Magic-Cavs matchup two seasons ago, the Magic were just a better team, and beat them up and down the court every night.

But this past season? When almost everyone was counting the Celtics out and putting the Cavs in the finals before they earned it? When they choked away the series? When it came to crunch time and Lebron turned it over more often than he did anything good? Either he gave up and wanted out, or he sucks BADLY in the clutch. Please watch games 5 and 6 of that series and come back and tell me whether or not he's a great closer. Then watch D-Wade single handedly dismantle the Mavs in the finals in 06 and tell me he's a better closer than Wade.

It's less about statistics, buzzer beaters, and close games, and more about a mentality, a viciousness and determination that says "I'm not letting my team lose this game." I've seen that in Kobe and Wade. I've never seen it in Lebron aside from that one game in Detriot. And I don't know why you think I'm overlooking that game, I mentioned it as one example of where he took over....but one example in seven years does not a great clutch performer make.


I mean, there is no doubt the Bulls are a much improved team, but in my opinion they're still on the second tier of programs, like all the west teams I mentioned besides the Lakers. I think its the Lakers, the Magic, and the Heat (now that they've taken pay cuts to allow the team to sign some decent roleplayers) that form the only legitimate contenders barring injuries. The other 6 or 7 teams form the second tier, that if one of the first tier teams suffers some injuries or they get some big contribution from a rookie or make a key trade or sign, they can be legit contenders too.

The Celtics of 08 were an entirely different case. They had an entire team in place and added in a few stars to push them over the top. It was the role players that really made the difference in that series, the James Posey's, PJ Browns, Eddie Houses. It wasn't really the big three that did it all for them. When you get to the championship level, the teams are going to have their superstars. A lot of times, the team with the trophy at the end is the team who had the most consistent bench or the best player with a bench that didn't get severely outplayed.

In my estimation, the Heat can barely form a proper starting five, let alone have a bench that is going to be able to outperform other benches across the league. Yeah Bron, Wade, and Bosh will get theirs....but if their bench is nonexistent (which is appears to be)..they can't be compared to the 08 Celtics or any other super trio. This was literally a blank roster with those three and no one else. They'll of course fill it out and do well just based on the talent....but the question is whether or not the supporting cast will be strong enough to carry them if they need it...and in the NBA Finals...they'll need it.

[Habib]

I do not know Drew. I consider LeBron a good crunch time player. Better than Dwyane Wade at that. I find it ridiculous that you say D-Wade is a good clutch player and not put LeBron over him.

Look, I did not count the Celtics out okay? Yes they played bad in the 2nd half of the regular season but I knew they were still contenders. They had lots of injuries. They were able to beat every championship contender in the regular season so there was no reason to count them out. They chose to stay healthy instead of having a great regular season record and as a result of that they lost a lot of games. But I knew that it was very possible that they can "upset" the Cavs and the Magic in the playoffs.

I do not really think LeBron and the Cavs choked in the playoffs in that series against the Celtics. In fact, did you not know that the Celtics would win that series? It was not a surprise to me. Look, when the Celtics made the trade for Rasheed Wallace last year, I had them as the favorites to come out of the east. The Celtics just played better defense. I do not really think they choked, they just got beat by a better team.

The so called mentality you are talking about, I have seen it so many times in LeBron. How is it that you have seen it in D-Wade and not LeBron? I cannot still understand. Okay I will not go back to that Detroit game again as proof since we already know that. What about game 5 against the Orlando Magic in the '08-'09 season? Game 1 against the Celtics in this past playoffs? Game 2 against the Orlando Magic in the '08-'09 season?

D-Wade destroying that Mavs team was great to see. However, I think that Mavs team quit playing after they took a 2-0 series lead. But no, that does not mean that D-Wade is a better clutch player. LeBron James has had more clutch games than Dwyane Wade to me. This is ridiculous to me. Please where is everyone else? Do you guys really think D-Wade is a better player (and clutch player) than LeBron James?

I will put it this way Drew: if you were an NBA coach in a close game, who are you more scared of, D-Wade in the last 5 minutes of the 4th quarter or LeBron in the last 5 minutes of the 4th quarter?

So much talk about the bench bench bench but how come the Lakers won the championship this year with such a terrible bench? To me, the Celtics bench greatly outplayed the Laker bench but still the Lakers won? Yes I think bench is important, but you do not need a super duper bench like the Celtics did to win a championship. For 2 seasons now, the Lakers have won championships with a very bad bench. I do not consider their bench good at all.

[Drew]

Man...what are you smoking? The Lakers have a bad, even terrible, bench? You are aware they have Lamar Odom on their bench, right? Odom is probably the 5th or 6th best PLAYER in any series the Lakers play in...including probably the 3rd best player on the Lakers.... so how in the world can you say they have a terrible bench, when one of their bench players could start on any other team in the league? (And I seriously almost challenge you to name me a team that couldn't use Odom in their starting 5)

You say things like that....and it just makes me think you aren't a knowledgeable basketball fan, man. But I know you follow the game, so it just doesn't make sense to me when you say things like that.

There's also Jordan Farmar...who could start for a lot of franchises (and probably will start wherever he goes), Shannon Brown, who is a valuable hustle guy and contributor. Vujacic, Powell, and Walton are solid role players who do what is asked of them.

It's really rare for the Lakers, who are so deep talent wise, to ever have a complete bench team in, they often sprinkle in bench players here and there to play roles, so a lot of their value may go unseen or unappreciated because they're still always playing the system and feeding the starters.

I mean seriously, if you call Odom, Farmar, Brown, Vujacic, Powell, and Walton a terrible bench....I'd like to know who you think has a good bench...or better still...how many teams have a worse bench. Bench players come in to fill roles when starters are tired or in foul trouble. Stats will never adequately prove how good or effective a bench is, so no matter how many stats may say otherwise, calling the Laker bench terrible is just dumb.

Also keep in mind I didn't say the bench had to be the best...I said it just can't be bad enough that it loses games by being so badly outplayed. I'm not saying the Lakers have the best bench in the league...but when paired with their starters in the lineups that Jackson utilizes, they're not going to get severely outplayed night in and night out against good teams like I think the Heat's bench will.


As to the Wade v Lebron clutch debate....it sounds like you're going solely on opinion. Hey, that's fine...but Wade single handedly led his team to a ring. When Lebron consistently loses when he's the number 1 guy in games that actually matter (read:playoffs) he can't be considered a better clutch player than someone who carried an entire team to a ring. And unforunately for basketball fans everywhere, we'll never know if Lebron ever had it in him to carry a team to a ring...because he chickened out and piggybacked on with one of the only players who could be a rival to him.

And what is with this constant string of excuses for Lebron? His teams have been the best in the regular season..and yet when his team gets eliminated in the playoffs its always "they just got beat by a better team". Are you really saying that he should get no blame? It makes sense to me why you aren't considering Lebron a failure or seeing his lack of clutch ability when you're not assigning him any blame for his team's constant failures in the playoffs.

When they got swept by the Spurs in the finals...they were clearly outmatched. As great as Lebron may be, I don't think many people give him any blame for that year. But his supporting cast was good enough the past two years to win a championship if he gritted it out and led them to it like Wade did in 06. The fact is that he didn't. He didn't lead them to victory, he didn't take over everygame and refuse to lose. Now I'm not saying great players never lose....but Lebron has never won. There's a difference in coming up short now and then and never leading your team to victory. Lebron never led his team to a championship, when he clearly had the supporting cast to do so. That blame has to fall, at least in part, on his shoulders, wouldn't you agree? You don't seem to agree with that statement at all.

Didn't you blame Kobe in 08 when the Lakers lost? Didn't that tarnish his legacy, until he redeemed himself by winning the next two titles? What if after Kobe loses there, he jumps ship and joins Celtics? Doesn't he immediately get downranked in the GOAT debates? Doesn't his appearance as a clutch player take a hit when he doesn't win?

Lebron does the same thing, but without having ever won anything to begin with...and you're calling him a good crunch time player? Based on what, exactly? A few good games here and there? Being great means showing up for elimination games and carrying your team to victory on a consistent basis and winning rings when you have one of the best teams in the league. Lebron hasn't done that.

And the only other person on here who seems to care enough about the NBA to get in the middle of us right now (at least in terms of answering your plea for others to get involved) is Ayhja, and I KNOW he'll agree that Wade is a better crunch time player...hell he'll probably even throw in Wade is a better overall player.

As much as you can't get over how I think Wade is a better crunch time player...I can't get over how you don't think winning rings is part of being a crunch time player. Can you even name me five players who can be consider great crunch time players who don't have at least one NBA championship? Clutch performances take place when it matters....not in regular season games, and not in meaningless game ones and twos.

[Habib]

Drew, I would like to start by telling you that I do not smoke.

It was not a mistake when I said the Lakers have a terrible bench. I will say it again: the Lakers have a terrible bench. Yes, Lamar Odom has the talent to start on any NBA team but so what? Just because they have him does not make their bench good. Will you tell me that the Laker bench did not play terrible this season and even in the NBA Finals? Will you tell me they did not play terrible in the Phoenix Suns series? I think that is a large enough sample size to use.

And then you are mentioning guys like Farmar, Brown, Vujacic & Powell? Are you kidding me? Even the Laker team themselves have criticized their bench so many times for not being good and their inconsistency for 2 years now. In fact, I do not even know what to say about that. If you want me to mention teams with good benches, Boston Celtics have a good bench. The Cavs have a good bench. The Phoenix Suns have a good bench. The Orlando Magic have a good bench. I think it is a no brainer that the Lakers have a bad bench. They win because of their starting 5 is probably the most talented in the league (until the Miami Heat big 3 came together).

It is kind of selfish of you to say that because Dwyane Wade won a championship with the Miami Heat and LeBron did not, he is a better player or clutch player than LeBron. How can you even think in that direction Drew? Kobe Bryant has been the best player in the league for years Drew, and he only started winning championships last year. Circa 2002 - 2008, Kobe Bryant was arguably the best player in the league. However, the Lakers did not win any championships those years. Heck, they hardly made the playoffs sometimes. It was San Antonio that won most of the championships during that time span. Did anybody say that Tim Duncan is a better player than Kobe Bryant because he was winning championships then? No! Kobe Bryant still was (and was considered) the best player in the league during that big time span. So why would you keep using the fact that Dwyane Wade led the Miami Heat to a championship to argue that he is a better player or a better closer than LeBron. I actually think it is not even close. LeBron James > Dwyane Wade, yes I will insist on that. Even though I actually personally prefer Dwyane Wade as a player. I like to say the truth though, I make the truth very clear despite my preference and I do not let my opinion cloud the truth.

And I did not blame Kobe Bryant in 2008 when the Lakers lost to the Celtics. Why did you say that? I think it was a no brainer that the Celtics would win that series that year. With the players and the situation the Lakers had then, they could not beat the Celtics in that series.

Yes, I would have questioned Kobe Bryant's legacy if he jumped to the Celtics to join them after he lost. That is because Kobe Bryant is one of the all time greats. He is in that class. I am not calling LeBron James (or Dwyane Wade or Chris Bosh) one of the all time greats (yet), so that is why I am saying that the fact that he went to the Miami Heat does nothing to his legacy. I am also not giving him excuses. I do blame him for losing. The best player on the team always has to shoulder blame if the team loses and I understand that. However, what I am arguing is that he is a better clutch player and a better basketball player than Dwyane Wade. Would you build a team around Dwyane Wade or around LeBron James? Do you think every team was after LeBron James in this free agency or Dwyane Wade? LeBron James was most teams #1 option. That is not a fluke at all, there is a reason for it.

Furthermore, Ayhja is not the only person on here who seems to care enough about the NBA to get in the middle of us right now. His knowledge and contribution is very appreciated and admirable, but there are other people who also know and follow the NBA just as much on this forum.

[Drew]

For the record, I'm just keeping mum because I want to give others the chance to jump in. It's probably a little intimidating to offer your two cents when two guys are going point for point back and forth for days on end lol.

I know we got at least two other guys that follow the NBA. Thoughts fellas?

[Habib]

darklighter1, -84, Uber, Skinny Bastard (sorry), trashtalkr

All you guys please jump the fuck in I know you are seeing this! :D

[-84]

Dude after drew's Kobe is better than Jordan thesis I knew not to bother with Drew when it comes to versus basketball debates.


Drew twist the script more than a Racist drunk KKK preacher at a rally.


(Just saying. No beef Drew.)

;)