Luke 23:43

#21

You don't believe that Peter denyed Jesus? lmao....in the Bible Jesus says "Before the cock crows 3 times you will deny me.

If that's not denying then what is?

#22

no slow-poke, I meant weakness on HIS part, BECAUSE he denied him, I know the passage, thanks tho.

#23

Oh...lmao...sorry man

#24

actually the word "paradidomi" is used, and that doesn't neccessarily mean "betray."

It comes from para "from, near, by" didomi "to give, to grant, to give or commit to some one something to be religiously observed, to give over to one's care, to follow one as they are your leader and master."

Literally, the definition of paradidomi is "deliver," and not neccessarily with or without treachery.

In my bible, jesus would say "Unity will deliver me."

but if one among them betrayed him, I would say it was Peter, who cut off the Roman's ear, and then later was identified by the Roman's servant whose ear he took, and he denied being ever by Jesus's side.

He even told Judas "carry out your mission."

In defense of the english bible, the four gospels name Judas as the "betrayer."

But, let us lok at this. the word "betray" or paradidomi.. is also used in the following phrase:

All things are delivered unto me of my Father:and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. (mat 11:27)

Should this read All things are betrayed unto me of my Father...?

and also:

Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have deliver ed: and many such like things do ye. (Mark 7:13)

Should this be:

Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have betrayed: and many such like things do ye.

He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? (Romans 8:32)

is therefore, instead

He that spared not his own Son, but betrayed him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Again in Romans (8:32)

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

God betrayed us by giving us the doctrine, huh...

and:

Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. (1 Cor 15:24)

So, in the end, Jesus "betrays" the Kingdom of God, even the Father..?

Or, one of my Grandfather's favorite verses in the Bible:

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. (Gal 2:20)

becomes:

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and betrayed himself for me.

This is my problem with the Bible. I believe much of the antiquated meaning of the text has been lost by the conniving hands of subjugating institutions and the cultural ignorance that plagued the world at the same time as Roman expansion. We have more knowledge of the words of the Greeks and Jews than ever before, through linguistic study, and we still rely on a translation of the book made in ignorance.

That's why I am making a record of the difficulty in translating it, sort of... when I can.

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#25

Ok...the Greek word is to deliver but Judas says "what will you give to deliver him into your hands". That's the direct translation. That's the same was betraying. It is the same word that is used in Matthew 26:24 when Jesus says woe to the man who betrays the Son of Man. It's a different word than is used to say that Peter denyed.

Judas was the one to betray. It's the same Greek word that Jesus uses to say that someone will betray him.

#26

The end of verse Matthew 26:24 says "Eni Kalos Eikinos Autos Ei Anthropos Gennao Ou."

I was - eminent - he himself - whether - Man - "Be born" - not.
Can you believe they translate this phrase, which means "I was Royalty, himself, whether born so or not."

as "it had been good for that man if he had not been born."

I already said the Gospels are engineered to display Judas Iscariot as the traitor. I even believe the Apostles likely felt Judas betrayed them. I am inclined to disagree. Judas was an aspect of the Christ, as were all his disciples, as much a Satan is an aspect of God. Judas was the only of his disciples who did not sleep while he faced his ordeal fo sorrow, and was his only disciple who was with him when he conquered Death.

Luke 22:3-4. It was Satan that betrayed him, when he entered Judas.

As for Peter; -

But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 10:33.

Now, compare "deny." This word is Arneomai. To Peter, he says he will "Aparneomai" which means "to seperate oneself from by denial. To lose sight of and renounce all proclaimed truth as falsehood."

which is betrayal TO YOU?

To me, Peter is the traitor... and Jesus says he will deny him in front of his father. Of the one who "delivers" him, he says:

The friend who does what you ask of him?

or

The Showman who is all for you, until he is challenged about it?

His last words to Judas are: Hetairos Hos Epi Paraemi?

Truest Friend, Have you come prepared?

translated in KJV- Friend, wherefore art thou come?

Judas's last word to Jesus is:

Rhabbi - Master.

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#27

I hate to say this just because you are so smart but that's not what my Greek Bible says. It's translated the way it's written and that Judas betrays Jesus.

And Judas calling Jesus Rhabbi and Master was out of both respect and mockery I believe. That has nothing to do with whether or not he betrays Jesus

#28

Trashtalkr,

I am not sacrosanct. Man, if you got a different view, so be it.

But I would love it if you would post what your Greek New Testament has for Matthew 26:24. All my sources have:

Ho Men Huios Ton Anthropos Hupagei Kathos Gegraphai Peri Autos Ouai De Ho Anthropo Ekino De Ou Ho Huios Ho Anthropos Paradidomi Kalos En Auto Ei Ouk Hegennathe Ho Anthropos Ekinos.

Extended translation pending while I watch a movie with my babe. Nothign like what's in the book. That's great you got a Greek one, which is it?

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who is not bothered by people who question their projections of his "authority." I am merely a student, of some seniority. but a student nonetheless. My Hebrew is far better than my greek, which is mostly Classical Homeric Greek.

#29

uppin for the greek in ya book.

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#30

Aight....in my Greek Bible it has the same translation as you. But my Bible is also an interlinear so it has the Greek translation right under it. So yes, the Greek that yours and mine says are the same but we're translating it differently.

So the direct translation from the Greek for the whole verse is this:

"Indeed the Son of Man goes as it has been written concerning him but woe man to that through whom the Son of man is betrayed good were it for him if was not born man that

ADN

Luke 23:43

some of you knew I would be doing this...