ADN

ADN,

nothing wrong with black firefighters, but making it easier for them to be fire fighters??? i got issues.

I can understand a "i don't wanna be the only black man on the force mentality... but "we should make easier tests so more blacks can pass them" all kinds of problems with that.

As I am a certified fire safety engineer with actual fire-fighting experience as a nozzleman (in ship board fires in the mainspace), and medical complexes (as a first respondent) i got MAJOR issues with that. It is not arbitrary, NOTHING on the test is not directly related to saving lives or fighting or preventing fires... or saving lives or property while fighting fires.

first of all, how many people (sure, segregate it by race and gender and age) apply to the force. of those how many DROP out. and how many FAIL out... and how many TRANSFER. look at application rate vs retention rate, and make it more attractive through marketing and exposure,.. maybe some uniform changes.

don't dumb down the force or allow it to suffer laziness to make it color friendly... no one wins,.. especially not the public they serve. not to mention you reinforce many negative stereotypes and take some of the glitter off the shield they bear.

everything in a fire looks grey through the smoke. every fire fighter knows that.


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Guess Who's Bizzack,

And with a wonderfull thread.....

To be honest I only read the comments of the ass that started this thread.... If I lived my life in the wonderfull loving arms of my parents, totally oblivious to the real world then I would say the same dumb ass shit as you.

Compare

Millions of people being taken from there homes and put into slavery.

Your white ass might have to pay a little bit more for tution or you might just have to pay for it all.

Compare

Millions of people fighting and dieing for the most simplest of things like: going to school, reading hell just to be considered equal.

Again your white ass might have to pay a little bit more for tution or you might have to pay for it all.

Compare

Millions of people fighting just to live day to day because they have more pigment then the other people do and so because of that they have to worry about little shit like being hug, wiped or killed.

And again your white ass might have to pay a little bit more for tution or you might have to pay for it all. WOW!!!!!!!!

As you can see your shit didn't change. I am not going to call you a racist but I will call you a dumb ass. You havent even experienced life enough to even bring up such a topic. Learning is a beautiful thing and I will never take away from that, but there is no value for experiences non what so ever..... and with that said you just recieved your first, for free I might add.

When things are at their worst for you always think about the other person in a more dismal situation and then you will see that your problems aren't even that serious. So stop blaming people for the shit thatS going wrong in your life and grow the fuck up and get through it because like myself thats what men do, they find a way, not bitch and cry about it.

I've probably experienced more racism than anyone on this site not just because I am a black male but because I AM A BLACK MALE, but I still find a smile and a way. White people have put me and my mom through hell and we still smile. Hell I even have white friends. But what I am trying to say is I have every reason to walk around saying how much I dont like white people but I dont......



WHAT THE FUCK IS YOUR REASON FOR HOW YOU FEEL AND THE ISSUES YOU ARE GOING THROUGH. YOU ARE A CHILD IN A ROOM OF MEN. I WOULD ADVISE YOU TO LISTEN AND LEARN.

yo, seek! Welcome back. Good to see ya

that was a borderline flame. heh.


FIRST:
Errata about the fact that blacks have more pigment in their skin: All races have the same amount of pigment,.. called melanin. It is the level of the enzyme Tyrosinase (which is produced by active melanin cells) that changes the color, and deficiencies lead to albinism.

Also, without getting on the whole "slavery issue" too much†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬…¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¦ Slavery was a AFRICAN invention of society, and there were countless Europeans who were sold into slavery in Africa. In fact, as late as the Ottoman empire it was the Caucasians that were the main source of slavery sought out by that religion of Peace called Islam, because they were lower than low and not real †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“people†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬?. This ended as late as 1783, to put it in perspective.

This was unprecedented in the history of the European peoples... who had little need for the harsh manual labor necessary to form habitations of stone in such proportions they demanded huge sacrifices of human life. The Europeans were taught slavery by Islam, who exploited them to sell them as novelties to the africans who considered Slavery as natural as rain. The lessons were harsh and bred resentment to blacks that would tear a hole in the fabric of the human history.

Caucasians had been killing each other for centuries, but most would rather just kill and die than dare chain another soul...

I don't agree with slavery, but when appeals to abolish slavery worldwide only meet resistence CONSISTENTLY from Africa and those countries with African noble heritage, one has to question why America, the country with the shortest history of slavery is the country where it is still one of the most prominent issues of resentment.

I HAVE ANCESTORS WHO WERE SLAVES AND WERE BEATEN AND DIED.
Do I hate Germans for it?
Do I hate Italians for it?
Do I hate Arabs for it?
Do I hate Africans for it?

I really don't think I can answer that question...

The propoganda of slavery was the ralley in the Civil War, because Slaves had started to ask "can we be free if we will fight?". It has made a horrible impact on America. The truth of this war is not evenly openly taught. How many of you even learned in school Abraham Lincoln had slaves that he had beaten and raped and farmed out? How many of you learned that there were full regiments of black confederate troops who VOLUNTEERED? Not all blacks in the south were hated. The evil slave owner is a reality (and ba horrible one at that), but it is often exaggerated. and usually for a profit.

This was a war of power, of exporting and unfair market trading.

The slave trade was brought into this continent by the French and Spanish, when they were unable to break the natives. It was perpetuated and promoted but did not ORIGINATE with The American Colonists. It was most prominent in those lands which had been populated when the Louisiana purchase was aquired.

Most of the slaves that had been shipped to America came from 1 African king, who dissolved the money into his private coffers? How many African-Americans curse him under their breath? How many blacks talk about recompense from HE WHO SOLD YOUR ANCESTORS WHO HE HAD ALREADY IMPOVERISHED or those who still TO THIS DAY enjoy that wealth and exploit their own people? Look at the way Africa King whores out its poverty and uses the aid it gets to buy a GOLD-PLATED ROLLS ROYCE.

People say the difference is the cruelty of plantation life, compared to the houseboy slavery of Africa's slaves. This is simply not true.

Of the Saharan salt mines it is said that no slave lived there for more than five years. The cultivation of cotton and sugar, which the Arabs brought from the East across North Africa and into Spain, most probably entailed some kind of plantation system. Certainly, the earliest relevant Ottoman records show the extensive use and abuse of slave labor in the state-maintained rice plantations. Some such system, for cultivation of cotton and sugar, was taken across North Africa into Spain and perhaps beyond. While economic slave labor was mainly male, slave women were sometimes also exploited economically. The pre-lslamic practice of hiring out female slaves as prostitutes is expressly forbidden by Islamic law but appears to have survived nonetheless.

This was the exact system perpetuated in the south, minus the sahara desert salt mine, whch killed more than slaves than all the years of America's horrible history of slaverty combined.

Certainly the most privileged of slaves were the performers. Both slave boys and slave girls who revealed some talent received musical, literary, and artistic education. In medieval times most singers, dancers, and musical performers were, at least in origin, slaves, who were popularized by the entertaining mockeries of their own culture and physical features.

ever heard the term "white-sploitation?" didn't think so. Amos and Andy, on the other foot. It's kinda trip to think about.

a sobering level of realization... people cry for cosmic retribution for black slavery, AND maybe never consider the black slavery was the retribution of the white slavery that had endured less than a century before...

THIS IS NOT A CRY TO BLAME AMERICAN BLACKS FOR THEIR OWN HISTORY OF SLAVERY. It is a cry for ALL AMERICANS to realize we were pawns for something which perpetuated "proudly and nobely since the times of Adam" according to the Kings of Africa, and used by the Muslims to finance their attempts to conquer all of Christiandom, and is simply accepted as the price for their wealth they are all too willing to pay.

I hate slavery with a passion, and instead ask all to simply let it go. We all know this MONEY ENSLAVES ALL WHO LET IT.

The sad thing is slavery was almost on its way out, because the industrial revolution was beginning, and machines were being made cheaper than human labor, no matter how poorly treated...

American slavery is a tragedy, but it has to be put in perspective and not seen as an isolated event. It doesn†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢t make it right, but it certainly does make it more realistic.

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=D>

Moving right along...I didn't take from that article that they were going to dummy down the test...If that's the case, the test has already been dummied down, they said that they don't rely on the physical as much as the rest so that they have women on the force...

What's the difference..?

Ayhja, looking for where they said they lookin to dummy down the test...

QUOTE
The lack of diversity within the department's ranks, particularly among blacks, has become such a concern that the city's Civil Service Commission has temporarily stopped testing firefighter candidates - largely at the urging of Trujillo and Denver Manager of Safety Al LaCabe.  

The commission is overhauling the testing process in an attempt to fix the problem, which, if not addressed, could get worse in the next few years as many minority firefighters become eligible for retirement.  



gender is a compeltely different issue

so is spelling :?

Well, they reform tests all the time, it could be possible they may be bias unintentially, that was a big issue here not too long ago with other forms of standardized tests...But like I said, I don't see how dummying down the test is any different than softening up the physical for women...

If the idea to fight fire is a physically exhausting job, and I'm 225 pounds burning to death cause Mary Jean is only 5'5' 126 pounds, it becomes a great issue...So, to dummy down the test is right in line with that...This is just like that test I posted on the old boards, called "The Black Folks SAT"...It was a joke, but the truth of the matter is that it was bias, albeit intentionally...It happens...

I can't name 5 N'Sync songs, but I bet you I can name 10 Jackson 5 songs...It couldn't even mean dummy down, it could mean diversify...I don't recall seeing the word dummy anywhere, I saw revision to a test that has like been the same for 15 years...

the standardized tests for firefighters are crucial... and in no way racially bias. Black men in the military have to take the same tests as whites and any other...

The tests have the same things on them, the tests in the military are just as hard... I have taken both. The questions are vital. like what are the difference between fighting a class C (electrical) and Class A (wood, paper, or paper product) fire.

I tell you, this is vital. Hit a class B (burning liquid) fire with water, and you splash it. Hit a Class A fire with P2KP and it releases deadly fumes... like the disaster in the woodland fires in california that killed lots of local wildlife back in 1991. If you charge into a Class A fire wearing a NIFTY (Nightime/ Infrared Tracking Unit (Yoo-nit) ) you can save a life that is hidden in the smoke - if its a Class D (fire hot enough to burn metals) fire, it will blind you for life and your helmet will melt to your skull. You never forget this shit when you have to learn it and use it. And you have to know it, or you endanger EVERYONE.

I talked to a man who was a firefighter who wore a rebreather into a class C fire, and was left unable to breathe for himself because of the toxic fumes from the burning computer equipment who was surrounded by. He should have had a gas mask on, and it was in his reach, but he forgot a rebreather won't filter silicon fumes...

As far as gender... I was on the first ship in the fleet to allow women gunner's mates (AE-33 US Shasta, look it up). The first co-ed weapons division in the fleet. We got two girls.. One was sexy useless in the workforce and spoiled. she expected fast promotions, because they were anxious to get women in higher ranks. The other was hot, and could "turn to" with the biggest boys in Third Division (Gunner's mates).

they both ended up getting discharged after getting pregnant, but that's another story.

You can't lift 50 lbs, and can't pass the tests, you got no reason to be trying to be a fire-fighter, boy or girl, no matter what race. You will endanger people. I also think you should have to be able to speak with the people of the community you serve.

The fire chief of my ship was black, and the fire engineer at my hospital was black (Mr. VanHook was a *mean* old black man who cussed at fires and laughed while he extinguished them.. he was nuts, but damn good at his job. he believed fire was alive, sort of) and if you either of them that the tests required for a firefighter had to be changed or revised so more blacks could pass them, they would just call bullshit and say there is a goddam reason most people can't pass these tests... because it ain't easy to be a fire-fighter.

I still want to know what the rate of blacks applying and failing and vs. dropping out is. I bet you many of them drop out or have difficulty getting the initial gear costs taken care of (which they are talking about waiving for minority recruits in NYFD, because the "pay when you pass" layaway offer wasn't attractive enough), most people (regardless of color) who apply to be fire fighters do, or go one to other less dangerous and demanding jobs. where you don't even have to buy your own gear.

7.5% of all the people who become firefighter certified become career firefighters (including firefighter paramedics).

that's a low rention rate to begin with, doncha think?

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I would definitely have to see more information on those tests, if that is the case...I remember taking a military test, and it was so easy, I thought it was a joke...I may have missed two questions...They were ready to make me a Lieutenant on the the spot, it was crazy...But I have always done well on tests...

Any damn way,

If the test is one tha that deals with the types of things that you say, then of course we don't want it dummied down...But this could very well be a ploy to destroy the reputation that the station had mentioned in the article...The test may not change at all, to be honest...

I have a close friend that is a firefighter, recently done passing the tests and joining a station...I will ask him about the tests he took...

alright, I am sure they are idenitcal to the ones that black security first respondent and fire saftey officers took right along side me.

We had no one fail it. EVER. but none of us stayed with it. LONG.

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