ADN

I don't want to loose the convo in semantics, I love questioning my own thought process as well as others...Its been a while...

highlife: The sun gives us all our physical needs not our spiretual needs

It depends on what you define as spiritual...I find a beautiful, sunny day very uplifting...The fact that you have life because of the sun and its effects makes the circle complete...But again, I am not vouching the sun for God of the year, I am simply saying take away all the bullshit that is built around the biblical God, and you can start to entertain what God is a little clearer...

Yes, I argued for a God with more human like qualities, but I also made it clear to distinguish that as a complete and seperate thing than a Supreme being/essence/material matter...What I said essentially, was that at the creation of the universe, there was a split of energy, the great catalyst (my supreme being) mingled with matter and the Big Bang happened...From that we have matter and energy that makes up our universe, and from that, we have creatures are are closer in make up to the source of the bang, than others...

If this doesn't make sense, just think of how things are in nature...You have chimps, monkeys, etc. things that exist here with us, that share similar traits as us...You could say they were humanoid, so to speak...My theory suggests that we are not the top of the food chain...There is a grander scale, and we fit right into it, just like everything else in the universe...There are beings that look like us and share the same traits, but are...More impressive...Gods, basically...Just think of it...In 100 years, we could achieve the ability to clone and space travel...The human DNA is a complex code, but if mastered...

Suppose we find us another planet that will sustain a cloned life form...What do you think they would call us, with our never ending knowledge of all things new to them, and abilities tht they know nothing of..?

@ x3n

Hahaha, God 2.0...I think that's a good point, one you strip the being of its biblical essence, it becomes a different monster indeed...But that's another thread, I'm more concearned about the original question, is that proclaimed athesists can deny the existence of a diety, be it biblical or otherwise, but are free to believe in other things or ideals that require the same set of thought tools to construct...and I am not just talking about things like aliens...

Things like love...Practically anything man, like belief in an educational system...Practically anything you haven't physically done yourself can be questioned...There are tons of things that you can't prove or distinguish as unique to your experience, yet we go about them, I just want to know what makes God different...A dude says that he drove from LA to New York only stopping to get gas, and we go, "damn..." But a guy says that he ventured to heaven and had a face to face with God, he is given another label than the guy that did the cross country trek...

I think like emanon said, more people are agnostic than atheist...And that said, I don't even think I've met an atheist...If one reads this thread, I hope they can clarify for me...Not arguing if a God exists, but how you believe in other things...

TRUST THIS: If a guy told me he went from Mongolia to Portugal in a Hummer on one tank of gas, I'd take his story with the same grain of salt as one who says he can prove the existence of God without doubt. For the record, you said Atheists were immature, or ignorant. The ones who get the labels are usually the ones who start pointing accusatory fingers and when asked for proof, offer none. I question EVERYTHING, and I can be corrected when I see a different side. God, as of yet, fails to cover the basic answers one would expect for such a large gathering of "witnesses". I'm simply making the same effort my creator makes in communicating .

Some claim not to believe in love, the same way some claim to be Atheists...basically the same reasons, you're right. Of course...some become emotional wrecks and needy parasites, and call it love, so the same rules apply, you see. Furthermore, some acknowledge (after studies and research, of course) that there are similar signals in the brain for "love" as dementia, "pleasure" is achieved either sober or with some drugs being that they act on the same chemicals. Yet no believer, holding firmly to conviction and faith, wants to acknowledge there might just be a possibility that their "cosmic orgasm" was just a series of synapses.

I think the opposite is true, I think the moment the word god comes into play, all other questions are deemed unnecessary for some magical reason.

Ayhja comes close to spelling out a theory I have always kind of kept in the back of my head and will pontificate on it when there are other willing / able participants. A, when you said: QUOTE"...My theory suggests that we are not the top of the food chain...There is a grander scale, and we fit right into it, just like everything else in the universe...There are beings that look like us and share the same traits, but are...More impressive...Gods, basically...Just think of it...In 100 years, we could achieve the ability to clone and space travel...The human DNA is a complex code, but if mastered... "
If you take that "grander scale" concept and then try to visualize what you were taught about how protons, neutrons and electrons interact with each other and the nucleus of an atom and then visualize our solar system and the planetary motion and the orbital paths, there are some remarkable similarities. It could be possible that our earth is really an electron in an atom in an existence that is beyond the scope of our ability to comprehend. Similarly, the molecules and atoms that make up the keyboard you are sitting in front of, could be holding a number of smaller scale universes that are as unaware of you as you are of the person who's keyboard you are a part of.

Then x3n follows up with: QUOTEsome acknowledge (after studies and research, of course) that there are similar signals in the brain for "love" as dementia, "pleasure" is achieved either sober or with some drugs being that they act on the same chemicals. Yet no believer, holding firmly to conviction and faith, wants to acknowledge there might just be a possibility that their "cosmic orgasm" was just a series of synapses.

which touches on another theory I like to kick around that starts with the premise that everything that we experience as Humans from emotions, to memories, to physical sensations is all a direct result of a biochemical reaction. Extrapolating slightly would lead down the path that everything in life boils down to the flow of ions across cell membranes and how simple a mechanism that is but is responsible for many diverse events.

-emanon

Well .. I don't know much .. but I know this. If there is a God or Gods or whatever .. it's gonna get a piece of my mind when I see it. I used to believe there was a God and then my father got sick and died. If I had my way .. I'd kick the living crap outta God for putting me, my mom, and my sister and everyone we know through that pain. My avatar is a fitting image for how I feel towards God at this stage in my life.

edit: better yet .. maybe he'll send me to hell so I can take it over since that pansy Lucifer isn't doing that good of a job. :twisted:

QUOTE(x3n)If a guy told me he went from Mongolia to Portugal in a Hummer on one tank of gas, I'd take his story with the same grain of salt as one who says he can prove the existence of God without doubt. For the record, you said Atheists were immature, or ignorant.

Whoa, whoa...I never said either of those things Homez...I didn't say on one tank of gas, I said only stopping to get gas...And as for the second part, I said a child, like Ra, would be...A child Ra's age usually has no concept of God, he is for the better part of it both ignorant, and immature to it...I never said atheists were immature or ignorant...I basically said I think you are not atheist as an adult, if you even acknowledge that there is no God to say doesn't exist...By even saying there is no God, you're establishing there is something to not believe in...

I think any degree of logic and rationality can take examples that we have here on earth, that are visible, and deduct what I am saying to be reasonable at least to a degree...You may not have the proof of a God, but as I said, the scope of what you can actually prove about anything is smaller than we think...There are small, full grown trees not 10 feet tall, and then there are mighty sequoia trees, grander on every scale...But still a tree...Why can't their be beings that resemble humans, but are on a similar scale..? How does one completely ignore this and call themselves atheist..? That's all I am meaning to ask...I am not trying to demean or downgrade anyone elses belief system...Its not the belief I care about, its the rational thouht process I am questioning...And if ia man creates and clones another human being, does that in turn make him a God..? How are we so sure, that we are not the offspring of a more advanced set of human beings..? How does one completely ignore that as a possibility, when there isn't any evidence for it, but certainly not any against it...It is one thing to say God could exist, but since I cannot come to terms with how, I'll leave it be, agnostic as emanon said...It is another thing to say there is not God, God doesn't exist and there is no possiblility for one...That is the true definition of an atheist...Which is why I posed my original question...Those are firm words...I just want to know or see someone back them up for what they are...

@ Kurgan

Death is a natural part of life my man, no one entity can prevent or ease the suffering of something that has to happen to all of us...Your hurt, and pain, man I can relate...But you have the believe that you won't go before your time man, your dad raised you, his work was done man, miss him...But don't resent that...What doesn't kill you will make you stronger man, if anything, if you do believe in God, you'll know your dad is with him, and he definitely doesn't want you to feel that way...

Just my $0.02...I lost a parent this year, my Grandmother...She had lived w/me for the past 10 years, and died horribly suffering for the last 7 months of her life, bedridden...She was 65 years old, and could go outside and rake leaves...And over the past years, I watched her suffer with So, I am not just talking out of my ass...

And some of us never had a father to love man...You're blessed to even have had a dad for as long as you did...My father never even told me happy birthday...Never saw me graduate...Just wasn't there at all...You're lucky...I think you should look at it the same way...

Hey A ... I'm sorry man. I know it ain't healthy how I'm feelin ... and I know that what ya said is true. I'm still working through all this stuff. I saw this thread on a bad day and I couldn't resist the vent.

on-topic -- I don't think there is a true atheist .. they may think they are but aren't. They HAVE to believe in something .. even if it's intelligent design. if they believe in that then the argument of a higher power can come into play since something had to initiate the intelligent design.

No need to aplogize Bro, but you're a member hare and I care about your well being...Man, when you told us what was going on in the annoucement section, my heart got real heavy immediately...I could feel you hurting man, and just thought I'd offer up some words of encouragement...I hope that you took them that way...

We need to find an atheist and drag him in here for questioning... /:D" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt=":D" />

You all seem to agree there are none. Just like there HAS to be a god, or many...otherwise, it is simply impossible to explain life. Without Jack Frost, there is no winter.
Let us pray.

Oh, there are some that exist, I'm just not sure how... /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Again, this isn't really about saying that God exists at all...An atheist believes that there is no diety...While that is fine and dandy, you have to have a reason WHY, and pending that you do have an answer to that question, is why I posed the question in my thread title, how can an atheist believe in anything, based on the reasons they give for being an atheist...

Most go into the deity presented to them in the bible, and as it has been said, a deity by any definition can be many different things...

So, without making any biblical references, what reason does an atheist have for not believing in the non existence of God(s), and how does it differ from your existing belief system..?

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence..!

just to to turn the brain blender up to puree, lemme adda few ice cubes to the mix...

"Can an atheist believe there are those things that may *claim* to be God. Can an atheist believe there is a being, or there are beings capable of great feats of power, and use humanity as their playground... and seek to enslave humans in worship and loyatly, for their own ends.*

think Stargate.