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DIdn't know any of that stuff about Wolverine. WOW! I gotta go check out the Wiki on him. So HE was the first mutant I would assume?

raum wrote:
We know Logan is at least 300 years old. We know he was given the name Logan and there is no record of his birth, nor people who remember him as a child, even those who have lived for more than 1,000 years. We know he exists in the far future, and has shown no signs of advanced agning. Hank postulates he may be a FAR older being than he can imagine. He even alluded ONCE that he may be "the" Cain who killed Abel and was left to roam the earth forever. Caliban even said something that sounded similar about him. but Caliban is nuts...

Prior to popular belief, he is not "cranky healing guy with unbreakable bones and claws." God bless Frank Miller for that.

Actually, Logan was born in the late 19th century, so he's less than 200 years old. And Logan wasn't his first given name. There may not be any hard records of his birth, but his pre-mutant years are well documented in Origin. A must read for any Wolverine fan. Check it out. :)

darklighter1 wrote:DIdn't know any of that stuff about Wolverine. WOW! I gotta go check out the Wiki on him. So HE was the first mutant I would assume?

As far as I know, the first mutant is rumored to be Apocalypse. This may have been changed in recent years, but he's at least one of the oldest.

He was presumed to have been born in the 1800's according to the "current" ideas guiding the series.

The current story is he was a canadian who decided to start calling himself "Logan" moved to America and became a WWII vet serving beside Captain America. "Logan" then became "Patch" in the Madripoor conflict where he was teamed with Maverick, who was AWESOME, which they will totally screw up, and who left moved to Japan and had a family with Yuriko, who became Lady Deathstrike.

but even recently this story has been changing and is in no way "canonical"

Originally, he was a evolved wolverine cub who had razor gloves... and the possible source of the X-Gene entering the human genepool.


Additional trivia - the first face proposed for Wolverin ended up becoming one of his most hated enemies (who was at one time almost made his father!) - "Sabertooth".

Origin is less than a decade old. Great read, though.

Wolverine was introduced over three decades ago. Origin is NOT canonical.

raum wrote:Origin is less than a decade old. Great read, though.

Wolverine was introduced over three decades ago. Origin is NOT canonical.

Just because Origin is less than a decade old does not mean it isn't considered canon - at least for the time being. Something is considered canon when it is actively incorporated into the main title's continuity - which is what is happening in Wolverine right now. On top of that, there's a separate Origins series that builds upon the story set forth in Origin.

Can you show me proof that Origin is not canon? I know Marvel editors have had disputes whether it is or not, but that's hardly proof that it isn't canon.

The reason I say origin is not canon, is because it is not consistent with all twenty+ years of comics before it. Working a origin in that ties up loose ends, creates others, and in some way insults the readers from past decades by making entire storylines that work into the storyline some kind of "implanted"memory,.. is pathetic.

First of all, him having bone claws was never part of the package I consider canon EVER! The idea that he would have bone claws and not have some kind of orifice for them to extend through is absurd. Furthermore, human anatomy suggests that if you had extra bones in your forarms, they would DESTROY your wrists and metatarsals by extension. The only damn way it makes sense is he had no claws before adamantium claws that were implanted into his arms during Weapon-X.

The idea that miners gave him the name "Wolverine" is as laughable. A "wolverine" is one who behaves like a wolf... not a "likeable young chap who is very strong and respected." It was a term used to describe an uncivilized cur!

and the hinted idea that "Dog" Logan (who would have been called a "wolverine" rightly so) is Sabertooth, the maniacal son of the abusive Zebediah Creed. Or does "Dog" Logan have implanted memories too? Or maybe Thomas Logan was really named Zebediah Creed and had to change his name when he went to work for the Howlett's.

I personally think Origin is revisionist efforts, and simply will not ever accept it as canon. If Marvel does, I am done with the Title.

As for the series built off of Origins, this is so implausible, I hope they scratch it.

They act like Jean Grey is hardly even a concern of his.
They can figure out exactly hoe powerful his healing factor is.
People, even super healers, can not nourish themselves on their own flesh.
Giving Wolvie a katana is like giving Iron Man a glock.
167 world full of heroes and villians and you have to screw with BUCKY?

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Winter_Soldier is a friggin travesty. We saw wolverine escape from weapon X and Winter Soldier (what a friggin wussy name!) was nowhere to be seen, or heard of. Lemme guess he is that good a covert op? bwa!


Seriously, at this point, I am about to request they stop putting words in the damn comics.

raum wrote:The reason I say origin is not canon, is because it is not consistent with all twenty+ years of comics before it. Working a origin in that ties up loose ends, creates others, and in some way insults the readers from past decades by making entire storylines that work into the storyline some kind of "implanted"memory,.. is pathetic.

I absolutely abhor the driving ideas behind Brand New Day in Amazing Spider-Man. I hate the fact that the marriage between MJ and Peter now never existed. I hate how supporting characters have magically disappeared and reappeared. But guess what? Marvel editors consider it canon! The main title says so, so it is.

raum wrote: First of all, him having bone claws was never part of the package I consider canon EVER! The idea that he would have bone claws and not have some kind of orifice for them to extend through is absurd. Furthermore, human anatomy suggests that if you had extra bones in your forarms, they would DESTROY your wrists and metatarsals by extension. The only damn way it makes sense is he had no claws before adamantium claws that were implanted into his arms during Weapon-X.

So you're able to suspend your disbelief about a near immortal human being who can withstand almost any wound, including close-range gunshots and the bonding of liquid metal to his skeletal frame, yet having extra bones in his forearms would destroy his wrists and metatarsals? Sorry raum, but the logic here is inconsistent to me.

raum wrote: The idea that miners gave him the name "Wolverine" is as laughable. A "wolverine" is one who behaves like a wolf... not a "likeable young chap who is very strong and respected." It was a term used to describe an uncivilized cur!

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I personally loved the reference. There was meaning behind it on various levels. The wolverine is a fierce animal that is remarkably strong for its size - not unlike Logan himself. A wolverine is a great digger as well, so being called one by a miner is quite the compliment. Furthermore, it was common for fur traders to sell wolverine pellets during 19th century Cananda.

raum wrote: and the hinted idea that "Dog" Logan (who would have been called a "wolverine" rightly so) is Sabertooth, the maniacal son of the abusive Zebediah Creed. Or does "Dog" Logan have implanted memories too? Or maybe Thomas Logan was really named Zebediah Creed and had to change his name when he went to work for the Howlett's.

This was merely meant to create some mystery. It's been since established that Dog isn't Sabretooth.

raum wrote: I personally think Origin is revisionist efforts, and simply will not ever accept it as canon. If Marvel does, I am done with the Title.

Before you do that, have you read the latest arc in Wolverine? Get Mystique is rather good.

Brand New Day is REALLY weird... but Faustian tales are like that. I also am not sure what to think about it... but I also think in many ways Mary Jane was often wasted in certain storylines.


Now the real issue:
So you're able to suspend your disbelief about a near immortal human being who can withstand almost any wound, including close-range gunshots and the bonding of liquid metal to his skeletal frame, yet having extra bones in his forearms would destroy his wrists and metatarsals? Sorry raum, but the logic here is inconsistent to me.

OK, here me out...

IF kept alive and tanked on local and system anesthesia, a person with wolverines healing factor could have his flesh and muscle flayed to expose and bare bone, he could be given antil coagulants, and could be spiced open for the metal bonding process. Allow the nerves to grow back, and provide the base nutrients to REALLY allow him to regen. Only thing required is his healing factor. We can already splice metal to bone. Pretty easy to do, when you crack the bone and let the calcium bond. It would also reason that certain bones might just as easily be replaced such as hips, and radius and ulna... Nothing says all of Weapon X's bones were preserved the the bonding process. His physiology could just as easily be upgraded with such biological procedures such as decentralized cardiac system, where the aortae and the ventricles are speperated but still function. He is a BIOLOGICAL weapon with detailed procedures that would only work IF his mutant healing factor is feasible. His metabolism and his Natural Human Growth hormone would prevent him from aging. Most of the cell mass we lose, like dead skin cells, and even sweat would for him REALLY regen, which would accomodate cell mass needed to regen.

BUT in all the years of woverines claws they were depicted as being THINNER than bones, and there was no supporting tendons to actually force BONE claws through the wrist cavities, and to keep him from projecting them as missile weapons from his fists, much less retract them. The bones in the wrists cluster simply could not hold up to me using 8 pounds of pressure to RIPPING out his bone claws, or less. If wolvie has bone claws, not housed in a metal capture and release system with a means to force the claws forward, housings to catch them and lock them in place, and a system to retract them, he should just have talons... bone talons.

Prollem is, bone talons or claws just wont slash a car door...

Also, wolvies muscles would "regen" before he grew body mass, his hair would grow like baby fuzz, and he would never even get a callous. The conclusion Frank Miller came up with was there was point where a man named Logan was killed, and that created a "restore" point that he always returned to. That is why his face can get tore off, and he grows back muttonchops that are groomed. Miller is a big fan of body memory... Also, looking at the aging process... Wolvie simply would not age enough to be be anything more than in his early twenties.

the "death as the restore point that his healing factor uses as the standard of run time optimization, and the metal to keep bones from healing at fractured angles is the only to really reconcile wolvies powers for over 80% of his career in the Marvel Universe.