Free will and judgement
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x3n
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You have the absolute right to do anything you'd like, everyone does, as a matter of fact. I would think that the virtue of one who follows the path of Christ and truly aspires to be with his God, would be to fully understand this right and yet choosing to be aware of consequences rather than fear judgement. Furthermore, I have a hard time rationalizing an all powerful, all knowing being, petty enough to "judge" humans after having given free will to them.
Dude, of course she's gonna dig it...your mom loves the cock
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AYHJA
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^
Agreed...
And, while I rarely do for many reasons, I will exercise a bit of admin authority, and change the name of this topic to something more relevant...
Hope you don't mind Deeje...If you REALLY want to keep the name of the topic the same, PM me...
AYHJA
Agreed...
And, while I rarely do for many reasons, I will exercise a bit of admin authority, and change the name of this topic to something more relevant...
Hope you don't mind Deeje...If you REALLY want to keep the name of the topic the same, PM me...
AYHJA
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trashtalkr
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"I have a hard time rationalizing an all powerful, all knowing being, petty enough to "judge" humans after having given free will to them."
i can understand where you are coming from on this, but ideas have consequences and everything we do has a consequence, either good or bad.
i don't believe we really have free will. i believe that God gave us the idea of free will to help strengthen our faith. that's how heaven can be so glorious even if we don't "choose" to go there. we think that we did. why would God give us a choice when that one choice could ultimately change His entire plan for the world. what if a someone made the choice to kill Jesus before the crucifixtion. that would of totally ruined God's plan for the entire world. i can't believe that God would give us something, like choice, that could pretty much override God's plan.
i can understand where you are coming from on this, but ideas have consequences and everything we do has a consequence, either good or bad.
i don't believe we really have free will. i believe that God gave us the idea of free will to help strengthen our faith. that's how heaven can be so glorious even if we don't "choose" to go there. we think that we did. why would God give us a choice when that one choice could ultimately change His entire plan for the world. what if a someone made the choice to kill Jesus before the crucifixtion. that would of totally ruined God's plan for the entire world. i can't believe that God would give us something, like choice, that could pretty much override God's plan.
"If there were no eternal consciousness in a man, if at the bottom of everything there were only a wild ferment, a power that twisting in dark passions produced everything great or inconsequential; if an unfathomable insatiable emptiness lay hid beneath everything, what would life be but despair?"
Soren Kierkegaard
Soren Kierkegaard
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AYHJA
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Analysis of God's "Plan"
The idea that God has a plan seems a bit absurd to me, in some ways...But, I think that is another thread all on it's on...One worth of exploration..! Thanks trashtalkr, I think I'll hook that up..!
In regards to your post, the comment you made about free will being tied to faith is alluring, but since one doesn't require the other to operate, I personally find it hard to take in...
My absolute favorite quote of all time:
QUOTEIf it CAN happen, it WILL happen...
Not ever will I say, "Man, you could have killed me doing that fuckin' stunt..!" Hard to think that if we were God's creations, we could fuck his plan up...
AYHJA
In regards to your post, the comment you made about free will being tied to faith is alluring, but since one doesn't require the other to operate, I personally find it hard to take in...
My absolute favorite quote of all time:
QUOTEIf it CAN happen, it WILL happen...
Not ever will I say, "Man, you could have killed me doing that fuckin' stunt..!" Hard to think that if we were God's creations, we could fuck his plan up...
AYHJA
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trashtalkr
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^^that's what i'm saying. it's hard to believe that he could mess up God's plan, but if we have a choice we really could. if you think about it, God could use me to change the world. if i had a choice, i could just commit suicide if i felt that life was useless and mess up God's plan. that's why i don't believe we really have free will.
the free will to faith thing is what i've really been thinking about lately. if we have the perception of faith, then we could "make a choice" for God, when really God chose us, and it would radically change us. we could think that we led someone to Christ, for example, when it was really God moving through us and it would strengthen our faith b/c we see God's power....i dunno....it's kind of interesting.
the free will to faith thing is what i've really been thinking about lately. if we have the perception of faith, then we could "make a choice" for God, when really God chose us, and it would radically change us. we could think that we led someone to Christ, for example, when it was really God moving through us and it would strengthen our faith b/c we see God's power....i dunno....it's kind of interesting.
"If there were no eternal consciousness in a man, if at the bottom of everything there were only a wild ferment, a power that twisting in dark passions produced everything great or inconsequential; if an unfathomable insatiable emptiness lay hid beneath everything, what would life be but despair?"
Soren Kierkegaard
Soren Kierkegaard
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Aemeth
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i have a feeling that the day we meet Haysoos face to face and ask this we are gonna feel really stupid at how simple it is..
Too bad none of it makes sense now /sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />
See, God must know what we are going to do due to his plan..or maybe he knows how to "activate" his plan depending on what we choose..
Actually, i have no idea what im talking about
Too bad none of it makes sense now /sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />
See, God must know what we are going to do due to his plan..or maybe he knows how to "activate" his plan depending on what we choose..
Actually, i have no idea what im talking about
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Aemeth
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I think I have it figured out...
To along with what AHYJA said, concerning God does not know what we will choose, but he knows what will happen regardless of what we choose.
So, I do not believe in free will being an illusion, because an all-loving God would not create a bunch of machines and send some of them to hell, and some of them to heaven..
Free will is not more powerful than God though, because he gave it to us. Just like a parent tells their kid to put the toys away, and hopes they do, they are giving them the free will to do it or not. Sure, the parent could force the kid to pick up, but how would the child be able to show his respect, love, and admiration for the parent? Obeying would not show the child's true motives because disobeying is not an option. God has to be all powerful because he has in essence allowed himself to be all-loving through this creation of free will. Word?
To along with what AHYJA said, concerning God does not know what we will choose, but he knows what will happen regardless of what we choose.
So, I do not believe in free will being an illusion, because an all-loving God would not create a bunch of machines and send some of them to hell, and some of them to heaven..
Free will is not more powerful than God though, because he gave it to us. Just like a parent tells their kid to put the toys away, and hopes they do, they are giving them the free will to do it or not. Sure, the parent could force the kid to pick up, but how would the child be able to show his respect, love, and admiration for the parent? Obeying would not show the child's true motives because disobeying is not an option. God has to be all powerful because he has in essence allowed himself to be all-loving through this creation of free will. Word?
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trashtalkr
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wow. this is really a change of heart for you deeje. this is really a different approach from you...it sounds totally against what you said before.
what you are saying makes sense. geez...i understand both points of view....i don't know which one to believe. i guess i'll have to think more about it and research about all this.
can anyone else shed any more light on this topic?
what you are saying makes sense. geez...i understand both points of view....i don't know which one to believe. i guess i'll have to think more about it and research about all this.
can anyone else shed any more light on this topic?
"If there were no eternal consciousness in a man, if at the bottom of everything there were only a wild ferment, a power that twisting in dark passions produced everything great or inconsequential; if an unfathomable insatiable emptiness lay hid beneath everything, what would life be but despair?"
Soren Kierkegaard
Soren Kierkegaard
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Aemeth
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see, just cuz the parent allows the child to choose, doesnt mean that the child choice has more power than the parent, because the parent gave the kid the choice..
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Cicada
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QUOTE(DeEje)To along with what AHYJA said, concerning God does not know what we will choose, but he knows what will happen regardless of what we choose.
I don't understand this. Are you saying he will always know what's going to happen, but he doesn't know what choices of ours will lead there? If we are given free will, what are our choices determined by? Is our soul some sort of random number generator?
QUOTE(DeEje)So, I do not believe in free will being an illusion, because an all-loving God would not create a bunch of machines and send some of them to hell, and some of them to heaven..
Exactly, there is free will and God or there is determism and nothing.
QUOTE(DeEje)Free will is not more powerful than God though, because he gave it to us. Just like a parent tells their kid to put the toys away, and hopes they do, they are giving them the free will to do it or not. Sure, the parent could force the kid to pick up, but how would the child be able to show his respect, love, and admiration for the parent? Obeying would not show the child's true motives because disobeying is not an option. God has to be all powerful because he has in essence allowed himself to be all-loving through this creation of free will. Word?
Both the parent and God created the child. The difference is, the parent didn't design the child, so they don't know what's in their brain and soul which will determine whether they pick up the toys or not, God does presumably.
I don't understand this. Are you saying he will always know what's going to happen, but he doesn't know what choices of ours will lead there? If we are given free will, what are our choices determined by? Is our soul some sort of random number generator?
QUOTE(DeEje)So, I do not believe in free will being an illusion, because an all-loving God would not create a bunch of machines and send some of them to hell, and some of them to heaven..
Exactly, there is free will and God or there is determism and nothing.
QUOTE(DeEje)Free will is not more powerful than God though, because he gave it to us. Just like a parent tells their kid to put the toys away, and hopes they do, they are giving them the free will to do it or not. Sure, the parent could force the kid to pick up, but how would the child be able to show his respect, love, and admiration for the parent? Obeying would not show the child's true motives because disobeying is not an option. God has to be all powerful because he has in essence allowed himself to be all-loving through this creation of free will. Word?
Both the parent and God created the child. The difference is, the parent didn't design the child, so they don't know what's in their brain and soul which will determine whether they pick up the toys or not, God does presumably.
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