ADN

gravyylegs,

Religion is not for the weak minded, for they cannot comprehend it.

Religion is a means for creating a context for the divine in the pattern of humanity, and working to unify that divine with the human.

How could a weak-minded person even attempt to do that?

The truth is that religion is often embraced by the weak-minded, as a socially accepted means of atonement for their indiscretions which they feel guilty for.

The truth is there is nothing further from religion than this charade.

Note, I am not speaking about religious institutions or any specific mythos. i am speaking of the cleaving of mankind to the divine essence which bears the knowledge of humanity's creation as its ultimate Mystery. A knowledge which only reveals itself when the mind is not blinded by the illusion of self.

vertical,
raum

Though I understand what you mean Deepak, but something you said, "Religion is a means of routing the ideas of right and wrong to the people." Isn't that something that isn't really able to be decided by a human..? So far, we have seen how you can be so called right, and then wrong at the same time...

IE, Man breaks into my house, and I subsequently kill him...

Church can only confuse that instance...Religion can be a way of life for some, and in that regard, it isn't for the weak minded...I think that what makes you weak minded is that you get a gut check and you ignore it for the comforts of your routine...

I disagree with Deepak, about the right and wrong angle...

Religion is not ethics and morals. They may include such guidelines, but rarely are these defining elements.

Religion's purpose is to connect everyone back to the First Man and Woman, as beings of Divine authority and creation. A proper look at ANY and ALL religions will reveal that they all have a common [shrouded] source. That is the sacred "Destiny" of Humanity.

Destiny is (in Hebrew) called "G_d," and is the origin of the word "God".

vertical,
raum

I did say the ideas .....

The general idea of right and wrong is there in the books but right and wrong differ in every situation. Every situation as Ayhja pointed out in his killing of a guy who breaks into his home would be a delima for those deciding whether it would be right or wrong. Religion does become a way of life, yes that is true but it does hold a general idea of what right and wrong are. For example the 10 commandments of the bible, it just provides a general idea of what right and wrongs are but cannot be used to decide for every situation because every situation is different.

"i am speaking of the cleaving of mankind to the divine essence which bears the knowledge of humanity's creation as its ultimate Mystery. A knowledge which only reveals itself when the mind is not blinded by the illusion of self. "

I agree with you on that point.

so when you mean "religion", you mean the socially construsted religions, not the ultimate quest that was exploited by those institutions?

ok, i buy that for a dollar.

During history the religion very is tied with the power and also it is an instrument to implant ideologies in the brain of the people. But it is an essential factor to the man, to perhaps answer what we are making in this world. Concluding, the religion many times takes a route for the greed of the man. It is alone to remember the Antiquity and the tax them sins to be pardoned, the importance of the clergy. The capitalism also is an essential factor that it helps the people to think that to have it is more important that to be. Well, we live in a world where dog eats dog

Elias, you make a good point, but I feel the difference is that you speak of authorities in religious institutions. I am not speaking of that.

Religion has always been a controversial and difficult subject to subdue people to openly argue.

If you're not religious you accept opinions open hardly without an ounce of necessity to defend religion or bringing up quotes from the bible. A practitioner of religion would literately destroy all possibilities of accepting what can possibly be true. None of us has existed forever to say what is our true inauguration, yet the power of religion has stuck longer than any other theorem. Religion is a fairy tale fabricated by man to keep a social structure. If we look back at the Renaissance we learned that this was a period in time where man woke up and began seeing life in a whole new level, beyond religion! Former practitioners began to turn on Catholicism because of its corrupted ways. Around the same time one man named Martin Luther saw it upon himself to create a religion that solely predicates the purpose of the bible in his interpretation. Like life people started to see the truth of the Catholic Church and began flocking towards Lutherans.

People we†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢re in the Twenty First Century, religion is the reason why the world is slowly destroying itself. People across the world are literately killing each other because of their belief system. For an entire race of people to be warring for thousands of years to prove a point is roughly psychotic. Religion only exists for those who are weak of mind and can†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢t live without something to believe in! If we find out tomorrow that there is no god, what would you do? Continue living life like you†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢ve been doing since the beginning of your existence. I know exactly what would happen, do you? Literately, half the world would begin eliminating each other for the hell of it! Imaging if the world had know natural law (religion) to follow, do you realize all the senseless killings that would go about because people have nothing to fear in the afterlife (if there is one). The biggest fear of most people is going to hell!!!

Like it or not! Life is a system of bonds if you respect each other everything will go fine. People that predicate religion are usually the worst people to be around with. They think that just because they read the bible and go to church they will be saved, WRONG!

Cosmicpious,

QUOTEIf you're not religious you accept opinions open hardly without an ounce of necessity to defend religion or bringing up quotes from the bible.  A practitioner of religion would literately destroy all possibilities of accepting what can possibly be true. None of us has existed forever to say what is our true inauguration, yet the power of religion has stuck longer than any other theorem.

Um, I appreciate the new voice in the topic, but can make no sense of this.

Care to elaborate?

I also am not inclined to agree Religion is a fairy tale to keep social structure. In fact, I believe quite the opposite. I believe (in this Case, Jewish and Judeo Christian) religion has been hi-jacked for the purpose of enforcing social struture, and it likely happened when the Elohist Document and The Yahwist Docuent (The two sacred texts of Northern Israel and Southern Judea - that are the origin of the Torah) were synthesithized to include the authority of the Priesthood of Aaron, and began to systematize God's "creation of the world" (Briat Ha-Olam) according to their own keeping of Order. This is when the structure of Seven Days began to permeate the text, and when the Aaronic priests begin to emphasize Aaron's position by Moses's side. Linguistically, the Bible falls apart into these two seperate texts, and the later redactions done by Ezra. This is the foundation of the Bible's Old Testament.

I believe the purpose of religion is to cause changes in consciousness, and it requires no book and no conduct restrictions or mandates. It is a mind altering experience, and when administered as what it is, it is powerful. This was hijacked by the Priesthood, for the purposes of creating codes to adhere behavior to to support them as the mediators of laws between men when they had grievances against one another. By using religion, they developed a means to garner "consent" for their judgements. They then had to collect taxes to support the existence of the priesthood, who had to make tithe to the King, and offerings to maintain the image of the Religion, which is one of its most powerful psychoactive attributes. Somewhere along the line, the methods of religion began to be used for the subjugation of the already oppressed people.

But religion is not the property of any one religion or book, and not every one of them is a source of tyranny. In fact, many religions do not even have texts, including The Native American Cherokee Hu-ke-ute, The Haitiian Voudoun, The Siberian Shaman, The Huna and Hina of the Hawiians, The Adepts of Wu Tang. It really seems to me that more people on this forum really need to experience the variety of religious experience.

Have any of you ever been to a revel, or as they are called now, a rave?
That is a religious experience. Have any of you ever been to a Temascal,
that is a "sweat lodge." That is a religious experience. Have any of you went on a fast? That is a religious experience.

As far as the Renniasance, I am more inclined to think several humans were already awake. Ever heard of Lao Tsu, Chuang Tzu, TutMoses, Pythagoras, Yamavarna, Ptolemy, Galileo, Diogenes, Johannes Trithemius, Henreich Cornelius Agrippa, John Dee, Hypatia of Alexadria, Archimedes, Rumi... just to name a few.

It is not because of religion that we are destroying ourselves. It is because of the misuse of religion, and the manipulation of human thought that its misuse facilitates. Religion should NEVER even been approached by those who are weak of mind. It is those who never bothered to invest their minds into the religion they professed who jeopardized the relationship of Christians to the rest of the world.

The reason Christianity is full of ill-repute is because so many people were dedicated to it without their consent. There were times when, due to financial strains and political oppressions a second born son would be sent to the bosom of the church... because you couldn't afford to support him. Unruly children were went to the church to be conformed, and then when given authority or definitive status in the fold of the religion, that disdain comes straight to the forefront. its like people who have serious personal issues doing drugs.. it just spells trouble.

There are three kinds of people who say there is no God:

Those who say I have not seen God.
Those who say no one has seen God.
Those who say God = 0.

I am the latter, and 0 is certainly part of the equation!

It is not so much about forcing others to believe with me. It is more about sharing my experience and views and encouraging others to opening up to the possibility of religious experience (not any SPECIFIC religious experience), as opposed to religious organization or membership. As far as "being saved," that is a fear of death issue, and I don't really feel this, after years of meditating on my own death daily, in a ever growing spectrum of possibilities, which is part of the methods of the Wu Tao Jia, the religious practictioners who developed the ancient arts of Tai Chi Quan as a form of worship. That does not mean, however, that I will just let my life come to term with no purpose. In fact, quite the opposite.

Saying religion is only for the weak is like saying a light bulb is only for those who can't start a fire from scratch.

vertical,
raum