QUOTE(Aemeth @ Feb 4 2007, 04:35 AM) C'mon raum, do you really think I am that naive?
You think that I am calling this guy a horrible person just because he is a "drug dealer"....?
Look, I think it is quite clear that we do not know for sure where the money is coming from. The only point I ever tried to make was this:
donating proceeds to a noble cause does not justify entirely using a vice to aquire the means that are donated
Do we agree with this or not?
morally .. yes .. it's probably wrong, but in the end it all comes down to personal choice and that person's ethical values.
me personally ... I'd take it .. if I competed .. won legitimately .. and knew that there were no other strings attached .. I'd jump on it in a heartbeat.
consider since the kid didn't take it .. he might go a couple years .. has to then drop out because he can't get the money since his parents wouldn't let him have the scholarship .. then HE ends up as a pimp, dealer, or maybe flippin burgers at the local fast food joint, or he continues and takes out loans and spends the rest of his life payin it back. Scholarships you have to pay back ... well .. I'd rather have the scholarship with no strings and a lil guilt then a loan I'll have to pay back the rest of my life.
money is money .. this country was founded on blood money .. we use it everyday.
I'm not so proud as to say .. 'even though I earned this money legitimately I'm going to turn it down'
guess I don't have high morals then do I?
Blood Money
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AYHJA
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No 2001, that just means you're realistic and grounded lol...
Aemeth, all I want know is if you realize that not everyone is born under the same circumstances...If my Son came to me and said he wanted to deal drugs, I'd question it...I'm not a drug dealer, I'd want to know how he chose that path...But the questions I would ask him wouldn't be any different than if he told me he wanted to be a criminal defense lawyer, a politician, or a carpenter...
I am in no position to judge anyone for what they do...Wonder then, how you got there...
Aemeth, all I want know is if you realize that not everyone is born under the same circumstances...If my Son came to me and said he wanted to deal drugs, I'd question it...I'm not a drug dealer, I'd want to know how he chose that path...But the questions I would ask him wouldn't be any different than if he told me he wanted to be a criminal defense lawyer, a politician, or a carpenter...
I am in no position to judge anyone for what they do...Wonder then, how you got there...
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highlife
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raum...... I don't know the man, I am not going to judge him. You are going by "some unknown people's" allegations that he is a drug dealer.
me.......What exactly are we arguing. I thought that for the basses of having an interesting conversation we were asking our selves ....if some one was doing some thing thats very bad like dealing drugs, than is it ok to take his money for some thing good like a scholarship and what if any effect does that have.. If theres no proof and no community knowledge that this guy sells drugs than take the money. If this is about some old lady seeing him hand a joint to some one than take the money. If its well known in the community that this guy is providing drugs to people on a regular basis than thats some thing to think about. If your going to make the argument hes not really a dealer than theres nothing to discuss
raum..........Now how he got the money to invest to get the kind of money to set up a college fund is another thing altogether, and not really the issue
me...........Yes it is if the community or the kid knows he is a dealer. This is my point. If nobody knows how he got the money it cant effect there lives. Money is not evil. Thats why im saying if he is a known dealer and cared about the effect he is having on kids he would do the scholarship anonymously through a third party. This way he doesnt influence the kid or all those other kids in his community by sending mixed messages about drug dealing.
raum.........That is why there must be a business ethic that includes a restitution; a redeeming contributional social conscience that says "for all the bad I unintentially do, I do this act of good." Any good company has one in place,
me....... Most companies do far more good than they do bad if they do bad at all. A dealer on the other hand does far more bad than he does good . Giving a person a scholarship doesnt come close to balancing that out and done publicly may in fact lead more people to deal drugs. This is part of my concern. Is he making the over all situation Evan worse by doing it this way.
Also which part of the drug dealers impact is "unintentional". Is he to stupid to realize the way he is affecting lives.
Im putting a link here to a report on the effects drugs have on society. Im showing the parts that have to do with a childs ability to learn. After reading this i wondered what kind of a Jeckel and Hyde personality do you have to have to pump drugs into the community where kids will be affected and than start a scholarship for one of them.
www.drugfree.org/Files/The_Impact_of_Illicit_Drug_Use
Effects of drugs on the developing baby
Children of mothers who used drugs during pregnancy
manifest more cognitive developmental problems and slower progress in school (Hogan,
1998). Prenatal exposure has also been associated with lower IQ scores and various
attention and learning deficits (Richardson, 1998). Prenatal exposure to cocaine and/or
PCP has been associated with abnormal brain wave patterns and delays in motor
development (Van dyke & Fox, 1990) that may impact later academic performance and
classroom behavior.Not surprisingly, therefore, that school children exposed to drugs in utero have a
host of problems that may ultimately interfere with their performance in school
(Weinberg, 1997; Young, 1997; Jacob et al., 1999; Leech et al, 1999; and Streissguth et
65 al., 1999).
œSubstance abuse has a major impact on the child welfare system.
While the estimates vary, depending on the study, somewhere between 1/3 and 2/3 of child
maltreatment cases (defined as child abuse or neglect1) have been linked to substance abuse (United States Department of Health and Human Services”USDHHS--, 1999).
The Impact of Drug Use on the Educational System.
Recently published research on the effects of long-term methamphetamine use on
the brain (Thompson, Hayashi, Simon, Geaga, Hong, Sui et al., 2004) provides the first
hard evidence of structural brain damage associated with such use. More specifically, the
study found that long-term methamphetamine use was associated with severe gray-matter
damage in the cingulate, limbic, and paralimbic cortices of the brain. Using a word-recalltask,
these deficits, in turn, were shown to be associated with memory impairment. Of
course, such memory impairment would seriously compromise student test performance.
Student drug use also has been associated with a series of negative school-related
behaviors including elevated drop out rates (Dewey, 1999; Hu, Lin & Keeler, 1998),
school discipline problems (Greenblatt, 1998), and delinquency and violence (Jessor &
Jessor, 1977). Both drug use and being charged with a drug offense place youth at ahigher risk of dropping out of school
.
raum........Heroin used to be legal. Would this man's actions have been "wrong" then? Was coca-cola "wrong" when it had cocaine in it?
me.........Are you saying we should be as ignorant to the effects of dangerous substances now as we were in the past. Are you saying it wasnt wrong to have cocaine in coca cola or are you saying that the level of cocaine in the original coca cola compares to snorting a couple lines before breakfast
Also maybe some one can speak to this. I dont know whats out there but isnt the current crop of drugs far more powerful and addictive than past versions. The guys that produce this stuff are in it for the money and if you can make some thing that gives a bigger high and is more addictive than your going to sell more.
raum............ Look at how many lives the Needle exchange program saves, or is that a redeemable practice because tax dollars pay for it instead of the users themselves?
me..........Now your just getting on my nerves. Giving away free needles is not providing drugs or the money to buy them. There not helping the addict be an addict..A heroin user has a life which includes having sex with people in the community. Addicts share needles . Addicts spread HIV. Giving them clean needles helps prevent HIV from spreading so that you and i and every one else doesnt get it.
uber...........I know a man that smokes crack, he dresses up, puts on clothes and goes to work like everyone else...
me........ The fact that he can get himself to work fully clothed doesnt mean he can handle his drug use. Three weeks from now the guy could be a mess. Drug users are very good at hiding there addictions .Your not going to know how bad his problem is until you find out his car ran into a tree or got fired cause he couldnt do his job or ran over some one with a forklift. You might get a call any week telling you his wife kicked him out or he got pulled over for some minor traffic violation and now hes going to jail because he forgot about the crack he had some where in the car.
raum.........Biggest cause of death in America: Heat Disease.Biggest cause of Heart Disease: Poor diet.Biggest cause of poor diet: Fast food.
Does that make the Ronald McDonald house and the McD college fund as bloody as this money?
me............Of course not. Theres like 10 things including heredity that attribute to heart disease. Evan if you could say the guy had clogged arteries only because of diet ( good luck with that ) how could you say it was McDonalds and not the hundreds of other crappy foods the guy had been eating his whole life. Also eating a burger doesnt effect your ability to function or your mental abilities. There is a reason why you dont get arrested while driving under the influence of a Big Mack A happy meal is = to snorting cocaine ?. Are you guys even trying to be logical or is this about who can come up with the biggest number of goofy analogies.
.me.........Down loading music or software vs selling drugs........... There both illegal but remember were talking about one person and the damage done by there actions. Unless you can say one person downloading a copy of an album or evan sharing it with some friends put the artist or company out of business its not a fair comparison. On the other hand all you need is one person selling drugs and he alone can help screw up many peoples lives.
me.......What exactly are we arguing. I thought that for the basses of having an interesting conversation we were asking our selves ....if some one was doing some thing thats very bad like dealing drugs, than is it ok to take his money for some thing good like a scholarship and what if any effect does that have.. If theres no proof and no community knowledge that this guy sells drugs than take the money. If this is about some old lady seeing him hand a joint to some one than take the money. If its well known in the community that this guy is providing drugs to people on a regular basis than thats some thing to think about. If your going to make the argument hes not really a dealer than theres nothing to discuss
raum..........Now how he got the money to invest to get the kind of money to set up a college fund is another thing altogether, and not really the issue
me...........Yes it is if the community or the kid knows he is a dealer. This is my point. If nobody knows how he got the money it cant effect there lives. Money is not evil. Thats why im saying if he is a known dealer and cared about the effect he is having on kids he would do the scholarship anonymously through a third party. This way he doesnt influence the kid or all those other kids in his community by sending mixed messages about drug dealing.
raum.........That is why there must be a business ethic that includes a restitution; a redeeming contributional social conscience that says "for all the bad I unintentially do, I do this act of good." Any good company has one in place,
me....... Most companies do far more good than they do bad if they do bad at all. A dealer on the other hand does far more bad than he does good . Giving a person a scholarship doesnt come close to balancing that out and done publicly may in fact lead more people to deal drugs. This is part of my concern. Is he making the over all situation Evan worse by doing it this way.
Also which part of the drug dealers impact is "unintentional". Is he to stupid to realize the way he is affecting lives.
Im putting a link here to a report on the effects drugs have on society. Im showing the parts that have to do with a childs ability to learn. After reading this i wondered what kind of a Jeckel and Hyde personality do you have to have to pump drugs into the community where kids will be affected and than start a scholarship for one of them.
www.drugfree.org/Files/The_Impact_of_Illicit_Drug_Use
Effects of drugs on the developing baby
Children of mothers who used drugs during pregnancy
manifest more cognitive developmental problems and slower progress in school (Hogan,
1998). Prenatal exposure has also been associated with lower IQ scores and various
attention and learning deficits (Richardson, 1998). Prenatal exposure to cocaine and/or
PCP has been associated with abnormal brain wave patterns and delays in motor
development (Van dyke & Fox, 1990) that may impact later academic performance and
classroom behavior.Not surprisingly, therefore, that school children exposed to drugs in utero have a
host of problems that may ultimately interfere with their performance in school
(Weinberg, 1997; Young, 1997; Jacob et al., 1999; Leech et al, 1999; and Streissguth et
65 al., 1999).
œSubstance abuse has a major impact on the child welfare system.
While the estimates vary, depending on the study, somewhere between 1/3 and 2/3 of child
maltreatment cases (defined as child abuse or neglect1) have been linked to substance abuse (United States Department of Health and Human Services”USDHHS--, 1999).
The Impact of Drug Use on the Educational System.
Recently published research on the effects of long-term methamphetamine use on
the brain (Thompson, Hayashi, Simon, Geaga, Hong, Sui et al., 2004) provides the first
hard evidence of structural brain damage associated with such use. More specifically, the
study found that long-term methamphetamine use was associated with severe gray-matter
damage in the cingulate, limbic, and paralimbic cortices of the brain. Using a word-recalltask,
these deficits, in turn, were shown to be associated with memory impairment. Of
course, such memory impairment would seriously compromise student test performance.
Student drug use also has been associated with a series of negative school-related
behaviors including elevated drop out rates (Dewey, 1999; Hu, Lin & Keeler, 1998),
school discipline problems (Greenblatt, 1998), and delinquency and violence (Jessor &
Jessor, 1977). Both drug use and being charged with a drug offense place youth at ahigher risk of dropping out of school
.
raum........Heroin used to be legal. Would this man's actions have been "wrong" then? Was coca-cola "wrong" when it had cocaine in it?
me.........Are you saying we should be as ignorant to the effects of dangerous substances now as we were in the past. Are you saying it wasnt wrong to have cocaine in coca cola or are you saying that the level of cocaine in the original coca cola compares to snorting a couple lines before breakfast
Also maybe some one can speak to this. I dont know whats out there but isnt the current crop of drugs far more powerful and addictive than past versions. The guys that produce this stuff are in it for the money and if you can make some thing that gives a bigger high and is more addictive than your going to sell more.
raum............ Look at how many lives the Needle exchange program saves, or is that a redeemable practice because tax dollars pay for it instead of the users themselves?
me..........Now your just getting on my nerves. Giving away free needles is not providing drugs or the money to buy them. There not helping the addict be an addict..A heroin user has a life which includes having sex with people in the community. Addicts share needles . Addicts spread HIV. Giving them clean needles helps prevent HIV from spreading so that you and i and every one else doesnt get it.
uber...........I know a man that smokes crack, he dresses up, puts on clothes and goes to work like everyone else...
me........ The fact that he can get himself to work fully clothed doesnt mean he can handle his drug use. Three weeks from now the guy could be a mess. Drug users are very good at hiding there addictions .Your not going to know how bad his problem is until you find out his car ran into a tree or got fired cause he couldnt do his job or ran over some one with a forklift. You might get a call any week telling you his wife kicked him out or he got pulled over for some minor traffic violation and now hes going to jail because he forgot about the crack he had some where in the car.
raum.........Biggest cause of death in America: Heat Disease.Biggest cause of Heart Disease: Poor diet.Biggest cause of poor diet: Fast food.
Does that make the Ronald McDonald house and the McD college fund as bloody as this money?
me............Of course not. Theres like 10 things including heredity that attribute to heart disease. Evan if you could say the guy had clogged arteries only because of diet ( good luck with that ) how could you say it was McDonalds and not the hundreds of other crappy foods the guy had been eating his whole life. Also eating a burger doesnt effect your ability to function or your mental abilities. There is a reason why you dont get arrested while driving under the influence of a Big Mack A happy meal is = to snorting cocaine ?. Are you guys even trying to be logical or is this about who can come up with the biggest number of goofy analogies.
.me.........Down loading music or software vs selling drugs........... There both illegal but remember were talking about one person and the damage done by there actions. Unless you can say one person downloading a copy of an album or evan sharing it with some friends put the artist or company out of business its not a fair comparison. On the other hand all you need is one person selling drugs and he alone can help screw up many peoples lives.
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Aemeth
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"I am in no position to judge anyone for what they do...Wonder then, how you got there..."
"donating proceeds to a noble cause does not justify entirely using a vice to aquire the means that are donated"
Umm, A, nothing is universal...but this is damn near close to a universal truth...I am not arguing personal opinions here, this is social logic...This is not me judging anybody, this is me asking "is this the most efficient, effective way for society to progress?"
P.S. I never said I would turn down the money. Even if I don't agree with where it came from, it would be foolish (unless you wanted to make a point...but at least foolish in an economic and social sense...) to ignore the "right" part of this dude's actions because of the "wrong."
"donating proceeds to a noble cause does not justify entirely using a vice to aquire the means that are donated"
Umm, A, nothing is universal...but this is damn near close to a universal truth...I am not arguing personal opinions here, this is social logic...This is not me judging anybody, this is me asking "is this the most efficient, effective way for society to progress?"
P.S. I never said I would turn down the money. Even if I don't agree with where it came from, it would be foolish (unless you wanted to make a point...but at least foolish in an economic and social sense...) to ignore the "right" part of this dude's actions because of the "wrong."
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raum
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to me, none of this is about "the dealer"...
it's about a kid who has a legitimately recognized chance to go to college.
I am not arguing the weight of the dealer's heart, nor his intent, it is about the opportunity.
And the fact that "someone" alleges the many to be a drug dealer is not a factor in if kids should have the right to the knowledge they need to succeed.
I am not saying it lets dude off the hook, and good for the kid if he feels like, when he gets a six-figure job, that he needs to help a kid, or build up a program to help kids.
but he is NOT helping do anything the donor may be doing that is criminal. His ride to school IS legit. He should get on that bus.
it's about a kid who has a legitimately recognized chance to go to college.
I am not arguing the weight of the dealer's heart, nor his intent, it is about the opportunity.
And the fact that "someone" alleges the many to be a drug dealer is not a factor in if kids should have the right to the knowledge they need to succeed.
I am not saying it lets dude off the hook, and good for the kid if he feels like, when he gets a six-figure job, that he needs to help a kid, or build up a program to help kids.
but he is NOT helping do anything the donor may be doing that is criminal. His ride to school IS legit. He should get on that bus.
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highlife
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raum......And the fact that "someone" alleges the man to be a drug dealer is not a factor in if kids should have the right to the knowledge they need to succeed.
me......OK raum maybe this will help. The people in this story believed so strongly this person was a drug dealer that they turned down a scholarship. Thats why we are debating what you would do if the person was a drug dealer. As i said in my last post....... if your going to start questioning whether or not he is a dealer than this becomes a different debate thats not even worth having. And were not arguing whether the kid has or doesnt have the right to take the money because obviously he does. You might make the argument that he may have no other choice but i would argue that there are other choices so what are we left with. Were left with discussing the possible pros and cons of this event.
raum........to me, none of this is about "the dealer"...
me.......Of course thats not what its about to you. There is a difference between how you and i see this event which is why we have different opinions. You see it as a transaction between the dealer and kid that is some how separated from the rest of the world. I and the people who choose not to take the money see this as a public transaction that could have an effect on the community or the kid himself. Obviously the parents and the kid are the best judges of whether or not it will affect that kid. You and i cant make that call. Thats why most of my argument has been about the possible effects on the community and poking holes in goofy analogies trying to make drugs look no more harmful than a happy meal.
raum.......but he ( the kid ) is NOT helping do anything the donor may be doing that is criminal.
me.......If this person is still a dealer than giving a scholarship helps glorify his drug dealing to the community. Im not saying thats why the dealer is doing it .im just saying that could be the effect. As ive already said this could than interest other kids and the clueless into becoming drug dealers who in turn screw up the community and become users them selves. It also makes drug dealing seem more acceptable .If you can send some one to school than maybe we should not think too poorly of the misunderstood drug dealer who after all is just like the rest of us and cares about the kids in the community. When in fact .if you read the reports i put in my last post you can see how much damage drugs do to the mental abilities of kids to even be educated at all let alone what it does to there chances to mentally have what it takes to go to college. You are trying to argue these things shouldnt even be concederd and thats part of the reason we disagree.
me......OK raum maybe this will help. The people in this story believed so strongly this person was a drug dealer that they turned down a scholarship. Thats why we are debating what you would do if the person was a drug dealer. As i said in my last post....... if your going to start questioning whether or not he is a dealer than this becomes a different debate thats not even worth having. And were not arguing whether the kid has or doesnt have the right to take the money because obviously he does. You might make the argument that he may have no other choice but i would argue that there are other choices so what are we left with. Were left with discussing the possible pros and cons of this event.
raum........to me, none of this is about "the dealer"...
me.......Of course thats not what its about to you. There is a difference between how you and i see this event which is why we have different opinions. You see it as a transaction between the dealer and kid that is some how separated from the rest of the world. I and the people who choose not to take the money see this as a public transaction that could have an effect on the community or the kid himself. Obviously the parents and the kid are the best judges of whether or not it will affect that kid. You and i cant make that call. Thats why most of my argument has been about the possible effects on the community and poking holes in goofy analogies trying to make drugs look no more harmful than a happy meal.
raum.......but he ( the kid ) is NOT helping do anything the donor may be doing that is criminal.
me.......If this person is still a dealer than giving a scholarship helps glorify his drug dealing to the community. Im not saying thats why the dealer is doing it .im just saying that could be the effect. As ive already said this could than interest other kids and the clueless into becoming drug dealers who in turn screw up the community and become users them selves. It also makes drug dealing seem more acceptable .If you can send some one to school than maybe we should not think too poorly of the misunderstood drug dealer who after all is just like the rest of us and cares about the kids in the community. When in fact .if you read the reports i put in my last post you can see how much damage drugs do to the mental abilities of kids to even be educated at all let alone what it does to there chances to mentally have what it takes to go to college. You are trying to argue these things shouldnt even be concederd and thats part of the reason we disagree.
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AYHJA
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QUOTE("Aemeth")"is this the most efficient, effective way for society to progress?"
The most efficent, effective way for this country to progress was to kill, maim, and enslave other people...Its not pretty, but be damned if it didn't work, eh..? And I'm an Afro American who is fortunate to say I know from where my ancestors come, saying I wouldn't rather have it any other way...I fucking hate slavery happened, but where would we be without it..?
Now then, and by God, tell me what is wrong with a person who through all kinds of shit gets a scholarship, for you to say he shouldn't take it..? And not because of something he did, but because you don't agree with the person who funded the scholarship..? And you say that, as if there is some kind of 'nobility' involved in all of this...
Kids, I just don't comprehend...These are schools and universities that 30 years ago wouldn't even let minorities in their doors...If you went to a school with such history, is your education ill gotten..? How did segregation impact your choice to attend a school to better yourself..?
Check this out...In the state that I live in, they were electing people with a bonafied Klu Klux Klan history...Don't believe me..?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Barnett
** waits for the wiki to be read **
Shit man, they just barely outlawed slavery in my state by a slim 2 to 1 vote in the 90's, even though it was outlawed by federal law...These are the people controlling these scholarships, these towns, and these schools here...Who do you think retained all the wealth during reconstruction..? Did you get wind of some 40 Acre and Mule kickbacks..? Shit, I missed them...And if you're thinking I'm playing a race card, you're reading it wrong...
Knowing what I know, should I move..? Should I not try to make something positive out of the negatives..? With the facts I just stated, and the ones you read in the Wiki, do you think that things are so different now..? Do you think scholarships and student loans are easy to get and or pay back..?
Ergo, you come at me with something better as to why this scholarship shouldn't give a kid a chance at a good education, other than you don't like the profession of the person that funded it...I literally am dumbfounded that there is even a tone of seriousness in the replies, as if taking this scholarship is tainted...When its been clearly established that so many things in life are far from pristine...
The most efficent, effective way for this country to progress was to kill, maim, and enslave other people...Its not pretty, but be damned if it didn't work, eh..? And I'm an Afro American who is fortunate to say I know from where my ancestors come, saying I wouldn't rather have it any other way...I fucking hate slavery happened, but where would we be without it..?
Now then, and by God, tell me what is wrong with a person who through all kinds of shit gets a scholarship, for you to say he shouldn't take it..? And not because of something he did, but because you don't agree with the person who funded the scholarship..? And you say that, as if there is some kind of 'nobility' involved in all of this...
Kids, I just don't comprehend...These are schools and universities that 30 years ago wouldn't even let minorities in their doors...If you went to a school with such history, is your education ill gotten..? How did segregation impact your choice to attend a school to better yourself..?
Check this out...In the state that I live in, they were electing people with a bonafied Klu Klux Klan history...Don't believe me..?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Barnett
** waits for the wiki to be read **
Shit man, they just barely outlawed slavery in my state by a slim 2 to 1 vote in the 90's, even though it was outlawed by federal law...These are the people controlling these scholarships, these towns, and these schools here...Who do you think retained all the wealth during reconstruction..? Did you get wind of some 40 Acre and Mule kickbacks..? Shit, I missed them...And if you're thinking I'm playing a race card, you're reading it wrong...
Knowing what I know, should I move..? Should I not try to make something positive out of the negatives..? With the facts I just stated, and the ones you read in the Wiki, do you think that things are so different now..? Do you think scholarships and student loans are easy to get and or pay back..?
Ergo, you come at me with something better as to why this scholarship shouldn't give a kid a chance at a good education, other than you don't like the profession of the person that funded it...I literally am dumbfounded that there is even a tone of seriousness in the replies, as if taking this scholarship is tainted...When its been clearly established that so many things in life are far from pristine...
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Aemeth
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Ok, point made...BUT:
Who the fuck says America is anywhere close to the proper model for a society that has progressed effectively?!?!
But yo, I do see your point...You can only do so much to fight the system, and you need to take opportunities when they are available...
But the money still is bloody...
Who the fuck says America is anywhere close to the proper model for a society that has progressed effectively?!?!
But yo, I do see your point...You can only do so much to fight the system, and you need to take opportunities when they are available...
But the money still is bloody...
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raum
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QUOTE(highlife @ Feb 5 2007, 06:18 PM) OK raum maybe this will help. The people in this story believed so strongly this person was a drug dealer that they turned down a scholarship. Thats why we are debating what you would do if the person was a drug dealer. As i said in my last post......
They investigate where scholarships come from, and the people who vest themselves in such material endeavors. I have said this time and time again. The man had to legitimately pass a security exchange commission review to show HOW he got the money. So, he has a LEGIT path for THIS money. What else he has done in hs life or IS DOING is not related to this,.. but it has to be good enough to pass the same review. "What part of they don't let dirtbags dropping rocks on the sidewalk just up and start a college fund" don't you guys get.
QUOTEThere is a difference between how you and i see this event which is why we have different opinions. You see it as a transaction between the dealer and kid that is some how separated from the rest of the world. I and the people who choose not to take the money see this as a public transaction that could have an effect on the community or the kid himself. Obviously the parents and the kid are the best judges of whether or not it will affect that kid. You and i cant make that call. Thats why most of my argument has been about the possible effects on the community and poking holes in goofy analogies trying to make drugs look no more harmful than a happy meal.
No, I don't see it as a transaction between anyone. I see it as a donation to a legitimately reviewed and sponsored college fund, with financial transparency. I see a kid whose parents are turning down an accredited scholarship that elects candidates according to their eligibility, by means of committee, not personal favoritism.
QUOTE.......If this person is still a dealer than giving a scholarship helps glorify his drug dealing to the community. Im not saying thats why the dealer is doing it .im just saying that could be the effect. As ive already said this could than interest other kids and the clueless into becoming drug dealers who in turn screw up the community and become users them selves. It also makes drug dealing seem more acceptable .If you can send some one to school than maybe we should not think too poorly of the misunderstood drug dealer who after all is just like the rest of us and cares about the kids in the community.
You guys are honestly acting like this guy is a pusher on the street. Hell for all you guys know, he owns a shipping yard, and some thugs rent some warehouses, and he don't ask questions. You guys make him seem like he is "drug dealer #1" in the credits of a Lethal Weapon movie. People like that are not the kinds of people who have the MONEY, Influence, or can risk the exposure and inquiry that settign up a college fund requires.
QUOTEWhen in fact .if you read the reports i put in my last post you can see how much damage drugs do to the mental abilities of kids to even be educated at all let alone what it does to there chances to mentally have what it takes to go to college. You are trying to argue these things shouldnt even be concederd and thats part of the reason we disagree.
Not a paper you linked was written since we mapped the human genome. Most were written in the "crack baby" scare, which turned out to be just as escaated as most other fears of humanity's impotence to adjust.
It sucks what people let drugs do to them, but other people let casinos do that to them, and others still let adult entertainment ruin their lives. People have a tendency toward vice. That will not change,.. control it or it will dominate you.
They investigate where scholarships come from, and the people who vest themselves in such material endeavors. I have said this time and time again. The man had to legitimately pass a security exchange commission review to show HOW he got the money. So, he has a LEGIT path for THIS money. What else he has done in hs life or IS DOING is not related to this,.. but it has to be good enough to pass the same review. "What part of they don't let dirtbags dropping rocks on the sidewalk just up and start a college fund" don't you guys get.
QUOTEThere is a difference between how you and i see this event which is why we have different opinions. You see it as a transaction between the dealer and kid that is some how separated from the rest of the world. I and the people who choose not to take the money see this as a public transaction that could have an effect on the community or the kid himself. Obviously the parents and the kid are the best judges of whether or not it will affect that kid. You and i cant make that call. Thats why most of my argument has been about the possible effects on the community and poking holes in goofy analogies trying to make drugs look no more harmful than a happy meal.
No, I don't see it as a transaction between anyone. I see it as a donation to a legitimately reviewed and sponsored college fund, with financial transparency. I see a kid whose parents are turning down an accredited scholarship that elects candidates according to their eligibility, by means of committee, not personal favoritism.
QUOTE.......If this person is still a dealer than giving a scholarship helps glorify his drug dealing to the community. Im not saying thats why the dealer is doing it .im just saying that could be the effect. As ive already said this could than interest other kids and the clueless into becoming drug dealers who in turn screw up the community and become users them selves. It also makes drug dealing seem more acceptable .If you can send some one to school than maybe we should not think too poorly of the misunderstood drug dealer who after all is just like the rest of us and cares about the kids in the community.
You guys are honestly acting like this guy is a pusher on the street. Hell for all you guys know, he owns a shipping yard, and some thugs rent some warehouses, and he don't ask questions. You guys make him seem like he is "drug dealer #1" in the credits of a Lethal Weapon movie. People like that are not the kinds of people who have the MONEY, Influence, or can risk the exposure and inquiry that settign up a college fund requires.
QUOTEWhen in fact .if you read the reports i put in my last post you can see how much damage drugs do to the mental abilities of kids to even be educated at all let alone what it does to there chances to mentally have what it takes to go to college. You are trying to argue these things shouldnt even be concederd and thats part of the reason we disagree.
Not a paper you linked was written since we mapped the human genome. Most were written in the "crack baby" scare, which turned out to be just as escaated as most other fears of humanity's impotence to adjust.
It sucks what people let drugs do to them, but other people let casinos do that to them, and others still let adult entertainment ruin their lives. People have a tendency toward vice. That will not change,.. control it or it will dominate you.
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AYHJA
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QUOTE("Aemeth")Who the fuck says America is anywhere close to the proper model for a society that has progressed effectively?!?!
EXACTLY my point..!!!
EXACTLY my point..!!!
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