raum...... I don't know the man, I am not going to judge him. You are going by "some unknown people's" allegations that he is a drug dealer.
me.......What exactly are we arguing. I thought that for the basses of having an interesting conversation we were asking our selves ....if some one was doing some thing thats very bad like dealing drugs, than is it ok to take his money for some thing good like a scholarship and what if any effect does that have.. If theres no proof and no community knowledge that this guy sells drugs than take the money. If this is about some old lady seeing him hand a joint to some one than take the money. If its well known in the community that this guy is providing drugs to people on a regular basis than thats some thing to think about. If your going to make the argument hes not really a dealer than theres nothing to discuss
raum..........Now how he got the money to invest to get the kind of money to set up a college fund is another thing altogether, and not really the issue
me...........Yes it is if the community or the kid knows he is a dealer. This is my point. If nobody knows how he got the money it cant effect there lives. Money is not evil. Thats why im saying if he is a known dealer and cared about the effect he is having on kids he would do the scholarship anonymously through a third party. This way he doesnt influence the kid or all those other kids in his community by sending mixed messages about drug dealing.
raum.........That is why there must be a business ethic that includes a restitution; a redeeming contributional social conscience that says "for all the bad I unintentially do, I do this act of good." Any good company has one in place,
me....... Most companies do far more good than they do bad if they do bad at all. A dealer on the other hand does far more bad than he does good . Giving a person a scholarship doesnt come close to balancing that out and done publicly may in fact lead more people to deal drugs. This is part of my concern. Is he making the over all situation Evan worse by doing it this way.
Also which part of the drug dealers impact is "unintentional". Is he to stupid to realize the way he is affecting lives.
Im putting a link here to a report on the effects drugs have on society. Im showing the parts that have to do with a childs ability to learn. After reading this i wondered what kind of a Jeckel and Hyde personality do you have to have to pump drugs into the community where kids will be affected and than start a scholarship for one of them.
www.drugfree.org/Files/The_Impact_of_Illicit_Drug_Use
Effects of drugs on the developing baby
Children of mothers who used drugs during pregnancy
manifest more cognitive developmental problems and slower progress in school (Hogan,
1998). Prenatal exposure has also been associated with lower IQ scores and various
attention and learning deficits (Richardson, 1998). Prenatal exposure to cocaine and/or
PCP has been associated with abnormal brain wave patterns and delays in motor
development (Van dyke & Fox, 1990) that may impact later academic performance and
classroom behavior.Not surprisingly, therefore, that school children exposed to drugs in utero have a
host of problems that may ultimately interfere with their performance in school
(Weinberg, 1997; Young, 1997; Jacob et al., 1999; Leech et al, 1999; and Streissguth et
65 al., 1999).
œSubstance abuse has a major impact on the child welfare system.
While the estimates vary, depending on the study, somewhere between 1/3 and 2/3 of child
maltreatment cases (defined as child abuse or neglect1) have been linked to substance abuse (United States Department of Health and Human Services”USDHHS--, 1999).
The Impact of Drug Use on the Educational System.
Recently published research on the effects of long-term methamphetamine use on
the brain (Thompson, Hayashi, Simon, Geaga, Hong, Sui et al., 2004) provides the first
hard evidence of structural brain damage associated with such use. More specifically, the
study found that long-term methamphetamine use was associated with severe gray-matter
damage in the cingulate, limbic, and paralimbic cortices of the brain. Using a word-recalltask,
these deficits, in turn, were shown to be associated with memory impairment. Of
course, such memory impairment would seriously compromise student test performance.
Student drug use also has been associated with a series of negative school-related
behaviors including elevated drop out rates (Dewey, 1999; Hu, Lin & Keeler, 1998),
school discipline problems (Greenblatt, 1998), and delinquency and violence (Jessor &
Jessor, 1977). Both drug use and being charged with a drug offense place youth at ahigher risk of dropping out of school
.
raum........Heroin used to be legal. Would this man's actions have been "wrong" then? Was coca-cola "wrong" when it had cocaine in it?
me.........Are you saying we should be as ignorant to the effects of dangerous substances now as we were in the past. Are you saying it wasnt wrong to have cocaine in coca cola or are you saying that the level of cocaine in the original coca cola compares to snorting a couple lines before breakfast
Also maybe some one can speak to this. I dont know whats out there but isnt the current crop of drugs far more powerful and addictive than past versions. The guys that produce this stuff are in it for the money and if you can make some thing that gives a bigger high and is more addictive than your going to sell more.
raum............ Look at how many lives the Needle exchange program saves, or is that a redeemable practice because tax dollars pay for it instead of the users themselves?
me..........Now your just getting on my nerves. Giving away free needles is not providing drugs or the money to buy them. There not helping the addict be an addict..A heroin user has a life which includes having sex with people in the community. Addicts share needles . Addicts spread HIV. Giving them clean needles helps prevent HIV from spreading so that you and i and every one else doesnt get it.
uber...........I know a man that smokes crack, he dresses up, puts on clothes and goes to work like everyone else...
me........ The fact that he can get himself to work fully clothed doesnt mean he can handle his drug use. Three weeks from now the guy could be a mess. Drug users are very good at hiding there addictions .Your not going to know how bad his problem is until you find out his car ran into a tree or got fired cause he couldnt do his job or ran over some one with a forklift. You might get a call any week telling you his wife kicked him out or he got pulled over for some minor traffic violation and now hes going to jail because he forgot about the crack he had some where in the car.
raum.........Biggest cause of death in America: Heat Disease.Biggest cause of Heart Disease: Poor diet.Biggest cause of poor diet: Fast food.
Does that make the Ronald McDonald house and the McD college fund as bloody as this money?
me............Of course not. Theres like 10 things including heredity that attribute to heart disease. Evan if you could say the guy had clogged arteries only because of diet ( good luck with that ) how could you say it was McDonalds and not the hundreds of other crappy foods the guy had been eating his whole life. Also eating a burger doesnt effect your ability to function or your mental abilities. There is a reason why you dont get arrested while driving under the influence of a Big Mack A happy meal is = to snorting cocaine ?. Are you guys even trying to be logical or is this about who can come up with the biggest number of goofy analogies.
.me.........Down loading music or software vs selling drugs........... There both illegal but remember were talking about one person and the damage done by there actions. Unless you can say one person downloading a copy of an album or evan sharing it with some friends put the artist or company out of business its not a fair comparison. On the other hand all you need is one person selling drugs and he alone can help screw up many peoples lives.