Free Will.....

#51

Where do you guys get the all knowing God stuff from..? Is that just your idea of God, or what you're been read or taught, ie, where's the merit in that..? What is the difference in knowing what path we'll take if given a set of choices, from him just making the choice for us..? If that is the case, then there is no deviation from the path, and you life is utterly pointless...

What you guys propose is something that you'll never see happen anywhere in your life, except confinement...Answer this example...

You sit in a class all semester to learn a subject, and if you're there everyday, why do you have to take tests...?

#52

You take tests to test what you've learned....to make sure you paid attention.

My idea of God and what I've been taught is that God is all-knowing. Until Scripture or common sense proves otherwise, this is what I'll believe.

#53

OK, so you take test to make sure you learn the material...But, there is no guarantee that just because you go to class, and that you're sitting there, that you get it...You may doze off, you may have some shit going on with your girlfriend that day, a traumatic event, etc...

Point being, you don't just pass or fail automatically just by being there, or not being there...If I understand correctly, what you guys are saying is that God knows our choice, but doesn't make it for us...What if your choice is to learn the material outside of class..? Your choice could be to just go to class...I am saying that what God knows, is that you intend to pass...And at the end, as long as you have the right information, you pass the test...

But...That's odd, Trash...The fact that you believe that God is all knowing, despite never actually reading that in scripture, is amazing...I could have sworn that the scriptures were the foremost authority on God...

Beyond that...I would think that God would have better shit to do than to watch us toil in predetermined paths...We could do no wrong against God, if he already knew what we were going to do...

None of the things you believe about God in any other capacity, support his knowing our every move...

There is no sin, if God knows your path, there need not even be a heaven r hell, because if there was a chance that you weren't going to do what he wanted, you wouldn't exist...

I don't see how what you guys are putting down makes sense to you, and I'd love to read a more in depth P.O.V.

#54

Lemme think about how to put it into words....

#55

First post..?

And he agrees w/me..? Man, you sure as hell know how to make an impression..!

You made some very valid points, and some I'd like to see you talk about more, but the end result is the same, believing in God and what God is about can do you no wrong...Good ole Pascal came through with that one...

saintlz wrote:it was Gods ability to create that makes him the God, not meaning he has to love his creation.[/url]

Damn, that sums it all up..! Good point M8, glad to have you here at ADN...

Welcome Home then..!

#56

saintlz,

Welcome to my corner of this joint. You come on strong at first, and make some good references. I like that.

Your arguments about God as the only option (omnipotent and ominpresent) are only sound in consideration to a "Doctrine" you refute as being "purely symbolic". God never says "I know all. I see all." It is MAN who says "Thou knowest all, and seeest All." And you know what.

It don't hold water to debate it, without doing your homework.

God means Destiny, and don't apply. He is Lord, or Adonai, in his name YHVH, which contains the mystery of His becoming.

There are Four Olam, which encompass 7 worlds (ashaar melekh "Gates to the Kingdom") and ten Daar Ha Eden (The Palaces of The Remote Place, Paradise). Within these ten Daar Ha Eden, God exists according to its limitations. God must limit himself within them, or he will destroy them utterly. In fact he did so, with one of these.

This sounds all freaky-deaky, until you consider these Olam, or worlds.

They are modes of consciousness.

God as he exists in the life of common man is remote, and glimmering.
God as he exists in dream and subconscious is shadowed and wrathful.
God as he exists in Love is bountiful and deals mercy even to his enemy.
God as he exists in power, is the epitome of justice and truth or purpose.

and so on...

The problem arises when people confuse the Olam...

God in the life of common man is not shadowed and wrathful.
It just seems so because often he is walking through life asleep.
He doesn't realize he has lost his way and walks around dreaming.

It takes a "Speaker of the Name" to be able to access these "Names of God" - or definitions of God in the Spheres of Creation and Existence - to have them "overlap" and perform the Pele ha-Adonai, or "Wonders of God." There are so many instances of this in history, it evades examples. There are not many left, and much of the craft was destroyed through the years. Even worse, many of the ones who operate do not do so with full knowledge of their craft or legacy, or seek to manipulate it, often lending to their own madness and ruin.

At most, you can hope to study this, and look upon the work of the bible.

See, the Bible is a useful text, but not just symbolically. It has valid texts encoded within it. And I am not talking about Bible code.

I am talking about the first attempt to create a Sepher Ha-Torah (Book of Law). It is a book of wisdom, and a wisdom that not just earthly. But it is almost of no use to anyone who has not had the training or lacks the focus to see it for what it is. This is not the book of Jewish import, it was the book that was penned by the hand of Admon, the High Priest of The Temple of Babel.

In order to understand the bible, you must start at the Kingdom of David and move backwards and forwards at the same time.

Also, just so you know, Aries was not a God, he was not even an Olympian, and son of Hades according to some, Zeus others. He was born on earth or in hades. But HE WAS BORN. that makes him something considerably less than a God. He also dies when Hera killed Ganymedes, and Zeus refused his children the ambrosia that kept them immortal.

Incidentally, the "constellation" Nissan, or Aries in the Greek was attributed to the Goddess Pallas Athene, the Goddess of Wisdom and Victory that sprang from Zeus's head. it was the golden ram that heracles sent to save a friend who was going to kill his son. They offered it up as sacrifice to Zeus, and Zeus lifted it up into the sky.

In Judiasm, it is Nissan, the Ram (or goat - the word has the same meaning) that God gave Abraham to slay instead of Isaac.

Now, that illustration of Aries kinda shows you the common ideas behind Hebrew and Greek, yah. Give ya a hint "Caananites".

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#57

Off-Topic: Welcome Saintlz, note the "S". I'm glad you join here.

#58

I was not stating these as FACTS, I was stating this as CONTEXT.

1. I am not a cult leader or member. jeez.

2. I have studied almost every religion known to man, intimately. it was for my endeavors as a Religious Anthropology student, my focus was linguistics. I posit that the context of a document is crucial to its interpretation, and is inherently one of the most crucial points of its composition, if not its authorship.

I never told you to do your homework. I said you can't hold water in a debate on the idea of sacred writ as a means of connecting consciously with infinite and Omnipotent God without doing you homework. I am personally someone who has done much homework - comparison of text to text in language and value according to contexts of sacred word in the people of the Jews, and likely the Caananites that they boprrowed it from. And by homework, I do not mean read regurgitations of common and not so common idea.

How can you even begin to understand the Book, and not know what Pesher is, the sacred form of encoded poetic parables most of the Torah is written in? This doesn't mean it is not true, but it is certainly embellished, and sometimes for good reason.

Greek romanticism and epic was of a huge influence of Jewish literary styles - through the Caananites, the founders of organized Alpeh-betic script, far before the Arabs. In fact the original texts of the Torah as well as ancient Greek are written in the Proto-Hebraic script, evolved from the Eshmoon script of the Caananites, though they have little similar phonetic value.

I am not arguing the "existence" of the Four Olam and other concepts, I am saying you must understand their "essence" before you can begin to understand why people wrote the Bible.

i will finish this thought later...

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