ADN

Couldn't have said it better myself...well, most of it

Yeah, you literally couldn't have said it better, no cliche expression needed, we all know that; which is why ruam is always around, to shed light on matters for us less knowledgable.

I myself will say, as the creator of this thread, that I've never gained more knowledge....err.. perspective, on religion than from that last post.

Thank you Raum.

As for that other fellow, um....maybe you're just completely unaware of everything. nevermind the beginning of your first full paragraph where you just tried to sound smart and got absolutely no point across, but taht crap about everyone would start killing people if religion was gone...hmmmm, I think there is a bigger factor stopping people from killing others. It isn't what will happen in the afterlife, it's what will happen in THIS life. No one, and I mean no one, would think....hmmm I'll rot in jail for the rest of my life which will be fine because im not going to hell when they wouldnt go to hell regardless.
The main thing stopping others from senseless killing is the punishment in this life. The death penatly and/or jail time. Captial punishment keeps crimes from happening, idiot.

Which is the better choice?

Senseless killing without punishment for the next 80 years....then possibly hell or who knows what would happen after you died.

or

Senseless killing where you'd be treated horribly and have no freedom for the remainder of your life.......then who knows what would happen after you died.

And considering Ruam completely destroyed your other points, and the fact that you've only posted once,a nd every piece of it was garbage.....LEAVE NOW!!!!

Adiriel I †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¹¢‚¬¦¢¢¬…œm not looking for a conclusion in this discussion. I just want to gain some sort of clarity. I can definitely see your stand on religion itself and I respect it. I just have one question to ask you, if you don†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢t mind me asking? Do you believe in the existence of some sort of higher being? If so, why is this being allowing the debacles that take place in this world? Are you telling me that this higher being†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢s purpose is to put an entire race at each other†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢s throat to prove a point? You mention that †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“religion is to cause changes in consciousness†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬? yet billions of people don†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢t see that way. If that was the case why is it that people kill each other to defend their religious beliefs rather that letting everyone have there own method of living. Instead practitioners literately kill each other to prove their religion is the righteous way of life.

Do you know the real reason why this world is so screwed up Adiriel?

As for you †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“The Messiah†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬?,

You sound really irritated to hear another's opinion. I 'm not here to start conflict; I just wanted to share my opinion †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“The Messiah†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬?.

The Messiah if you had any ounce of genius in you. You would have made the simple assumption that if the world goes into total chaos with the absence of religion. Laws would have absolutely no control over people, since people would conjure up there own laws, jackass! By stating †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“I could not have said it better myself†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬? is just an obvious attempt to latch on to a certain person (in this case Adiriel) that actually had something to go against my argument, and make me see some clarity, is just pathetic in you part.

In your case †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“The Messiah†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬?, you†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢re just a little immature punk that has little to nothing to say that can add to the argument. Also, what do you expect? Obviously this is my first post to the board. I have to begin somewhere! To discredit my opinion because of me being a new member is just childish and ignorant by your part. May I ask what type of messiah are you? Are you leading the righteous path to idiocy?

CosmicPious,

I am certainly not looking for converts, if that's what you mean.

QUOTE Do you believe in the existence of some sort of higher being?

I (if you will for myself) have knowledge and experience of a personified source of all life and light and darkness. I did achieve this through practices which are outlined in the direct context of the holy writ and oral traditions of no less than 5 religions usually not seen to be even remotely connected. Where these religions had common elements, I took those to be remnants of something far older than the institution of those religions.

I worked on ancient history and languages to find the essential keys to all claims of greatness. I was twelve. I am thirty now, and I believe I have more of an understanding of religious ideas and the motives behind them than most of the people who are INSIDE their professed religions common laiety.

That does not mean that I believe that this being is \"higher.\" or that is a \"being\". I do believe the personification of the essence of all-permeating universal forces, some NOT YET DISCOVERED, is an effective means of discovering and utilizing them.

Furthermore, just as automatic writing reveals that the persons subconscious can communicate to them, so I believe with access to liminal states of consciousness (through meditation, contemplative prayer, or even 2 hours of watching TV) and focus upon a symbol or image(not just a physical one), one can recieve written or spoken instruction from the Superconsciousness, which is the administrator of the abstract mental faculties that drive our \"beliefs\" and affect how those forces reveal themselves to us.

QUOTE If so, why is this being allowing the debacles that take place in this world?

See, that is it. It is not a being. It is an \"essence that preceeds existence\" It does not allow them to take place, it knows they must. It is part of the very nature of the physical exstence we share... all the atoms of all matter are at war with each other, per se. This \"molecular aggitation\" is the very cause of the accumulation of amss, and also for the distinction of form.

The proponent of violence in the human is a natural extension of the composition of its anatomy. It is a task for the human to control this powerful facet of its existence, and strengthen it. Nowadays, we are told to deny it. This breeds weakness and nner contention.

QUOTEAre you telling me that this higher being†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢s purpose is to put an entire race at each other†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢s throat to prove a point?

I am not saying that is mankind's nature taking to its full extreme. Look at the struggle in the womb. It has nothing to do with this \"purpose\", which is to facilitate the bond between the subconscious and the superconscious.

QUOTEYou mention that †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“religion is to cause changes in consciousness†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬? yet billions of people don†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢t see that way. If that was the case why is it that people kill each other to defend their religious beliefs rather that letting everyone have there own method of living. Instead practitioners literately kill each other to prove their religion is the righteous way of life.

They don't kill each other to defend beliefs. They defeat the enemies of their professed beliefs the only way they know how, because they know nothing of the heart of their religion. This is just because the Tyranny of Man hides behind the \"EveryMan\" religious institutions which enforce the subjugation of the human spirit to a worldly doctrine, whihc by nature is heresy.

QUOTEDo you know the real reason why this world is so screwed up Adiriel?

Because the kitchen gets messy when you get to cooking and you don't clean as you go.

vertical,
raum

Thanks Adiriel!

I really appreciate your input and knowledge on the subject at hand. I feel glad that I can communicate with a person that has what I call "THE EXACT FREE SPIRIT". For 18 years you've been searching for a true meaning, I've barely decided if I want to continue living. You're quite erudite and I would like to ask you, what is your current method of living after these 18 years of searching?

....dude just accept the fact that you are wrong...

with the absence of religion. Laws would have absolutely no control over people, since people would conjure up there own laws,


uh.... wtf? I don't follow a religion, therefore religion is absent in my life, so according to you I should feel compelled to break something and break rules? It doesn't work like that. Laws only lose their power when there is no one around to enforce the law. When's the last time God put someone in prision for life?Religion isn't nearly as strong anymore as it once was. It was considered a crime not to go to church in the past, now....only about 3 people I know personally actually attend church or are religious at all. They aren't criminals because they don't believe in religion.

I have no problem recognizing someone else's opinion. I do have a problem with someone being completely wrong, and then acting like the other people are at fault. Religion controls NOTHING in society anymore, esp. how people act. Without Religion.....I don't think America would be much different.


Oh, and I love how new people love to come into this thread and try and say that I have nothing to add to this disscussion, when I'm the one who started this disscussion. Sit back and observe for a few days before you jump in and pretend to own the place okay ?

I would agree TM, people tend do just come in here and presume you have nothing to contribute, until you open up.

what's up with that?

cosmic pious,

I worked in corporate and security industry data architecture and operations and am considering digital media, but its been a while since I worked, cause I moved across the US from California, and have been enjoying the break. maybe this week I'll get my Jersey ID and go get a temp job.

is that what you mean?

I maybe wrong, but it never hurts to discard some sort of outlook.

The Messiah you proved my point.

You don†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢t follow any religion you just take life for what it is, correct! I live life the same way with instinct and assumption. But, there are millions of people out there that need something to believe in to continue living. These people expect something at the end of this life. A reward for living in this world, it†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢s like a consolation prize. Imagine if god didn†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢t exist and people that dedicated there hole life worshiping in hope of salvage from judgment day. Imagine if judgment day never arrives it never takes place, because the existence of god has been smashed!

Most people would just accept the fact that god does not exist and continue living with a sense of euphoria.

Others would just feel cheated, betrayed, and flabbergasted at the fact that they have been tricked and mislead into believing something isn†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢t true.

But, a certain few would rebel and cause disorder at the possible fact that there is nothing to fear, since the possibility of an afterlife is absent. This would be the moment where people would kill, rape, and commit adultery in excess.

Wouldn†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢t you call this chaos?

Adiriel,

LOL!

No, I mean do you have a belief system for life after these 18 years of investigating religion?

I think our current "East vs West" Celebrity Deathmatch is a good reference for the way religion and politics are intertwined.