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QUOTE(trashtalkr)Her family is taking it pretty hard. She was living with her sister and they had gotten a huge fight right before she went out driving. Never settled things between them. Funeral is on Friday so as soon after that as I can I'll post more about the actual topic
Mate that's terrible............I give you and her family my condolences................
:arrow: What happened there is the exact reason why I NEVER get into a car after an argument....
If I have to travel, I'll ride my bicycle, so the exercise will calm me down through physical exertion. It nearly didn't work a few weeks ago when my father made me feel like I was a waste of space............, but it managed to work....
Mate that's terrible............I give you and her family my condolences................
:arrow: What happened there is the exact reason why I NEVER get into a car after an argument....
If I have to travel, I'll ride my bicycle, so the exercise will calm me down through physical exertion. It nearly didn't work a few weeks ago when my father made me feel like I was a waste of space............, but it managed to work....
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trashtalkr
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Ok..here is my anticipated post:
The quotes are from Guillermo Gonzalez, PhD. He coauthored The Privilaged Planet and is now a professor at Iowa State University and has research centers on low and intermediate mass stars and theories about stellar and planetary evolution.
People say that if you can fin a place anywhere in the universe where water stays liquid for a long enough period of time, then life will develop just like it did on Earth. Gonzalez says "It's true that in order to have life you need water - which is the universal solvent - for reactions to take place, as well has carbon, which serves as the core atom of the information-carrying structural molecules of life. But you also need a lot more. Humans require 26 essential elements; a bacterium about 16. Intermediate lifeforms are between those 2 numbers. The problem is that not just any planetary bosy will be the source of all those chemical ingredients in the necessary forms and amounts."
People have thought that maybe e.t life could be built in a radically different form like based on silicon instead of carbon. "That just won't work. Chemistry is one of the better understood areas of science. We know that you just can't get certain atoms to stick together in sufficient number and complexity to give you large molecules like carbon can. You just can't get other types of liquids to dissolve as many differnt kinds of chemicals as you can with water. There's something like half a dozen different properties of both water and carbon that are optimal for life. Nothing else comes close. Silicon falls far short of carbon. Life isn't easy to create. They think it's enough merely to have liquid water because they see life as an epiphenomenon - just a piece of slime mold growing on an inert piece of granite. The Earth's geology and biology interact very tightly wiht each other. YOu can't think of life as being independent of the geophysical and meteorphysical processes of the planet. They interact in a very intimate way. So you need not only the right chemicals for life but also a planetary enviroment that's tuned to life."
When asked about life on Mars he replied with this. "It would be very difficult. From the magnetic field to plate tectonitcs to the carbon dioxide cycle - ongoing life depends on a variety of very complicated interactions with the planet. People generally think that because they plant a seed and it grows that it's easy to create the right enviroment for life, but that's misleading. A good example is the hermetically sealed biosphere that some people constructed in Arizona several years ago. They thought it would be relatively easy to create a self-contained enviroment conducive to life, but they had a devil of a time trying to make it work. The only thing that doesn't need oxygen are some microorganisms that breathe methane. BUt larger organisms, which need to regulate their metabolism, are invariably oxygen-breathers. The oxygen gets mixed in with the ocean and transported into deep waters. SO those organisms are very directly tied to the surface and the overall ecosystem of the planet."
Gonzalez, along with Don Brownlee and Peter Ward of U of Washington, developed a concept called the Galactic Habitable Zone - a zone where habitable planets might be possible. Like when Drake and Sagan sent a message to M13, it was useless for life would be impossible there for 2 reasons. First, globular clusters are among the oldest things in the galaxy and their stars have a very low abundance of heavy elements. They are made up entirely of hydrogen and helium. Second reason is sulfur. The earliest stars were made up of that. When the starts exploded, teh elements got expelled into the interstellar medium. Clusters are so densely packed wiht stars that they wouldn't allow for stable, circular orbits to exist around them. The gravitational pull of hte stars would create elliptical obrits that would take a hypothetical planet into extremes of cold and heat, which would create a life-prohibitive situation.
When asked about other intelligent life in other types of galaxies this is how he responded. "You see, galaxies have varying degrees of star formation, where interstellar gases coalesce to form stars, star clusters, and massive stars that blow up as supernovae. PLaces with active star formation are very dangerous, because that's where you have supernovae exploding at a fairly high rate. IN our galaxy, those dangerous places are primarily in the spiral arms, where there are also hazardous giant molecular clouds. We're very far from the nucleus of the galaxy which is also a dangerous place. There is a massive black hole in the middle of nearly every large galaxy. Lots of high energy is released that is very dangerous for life forms. The composition of a spirial galaxy changes as you go out from the center. The abundance of heavy elements is greater towards the center, b/c that's where star formation has been more vigorous over the history of the galaxy. The outer regions of the disk are less likely to have Earth-type planets. If you put all this together - the inner region of the galaxy is much more dangerous from radiation and other threats; the outer part isn't going to be able to form Earth-like planets b/c of the lack of heavy elements; and the thin disk of our galaxy helps our sun stay in its desireable circular orbit. An eccentric orbit could cause it to cross spiral arms and visit the dangerous inner regions of the galaxy, but being circular it remains in the safe zone. "
He talks more about the other types of galaxies but they all come up with the same result.
He was asked how our solar system contributes to life on Earth. "For example, Jupiter - which is more than 300 times the mass of the Earth - acts as a shield to protect us from too many comet impacts. It deflects them and keeps many from coming into the inner solar system. Also, planets in the inner solar system protect us from getting bombarded by asteroids. They are mainly between Mars and Jupiter. The first line of defense is Mars and Venus. Another concept is the Circumstellar Hibitable Zone. That's the region around a star where you can have liquid water on teh surface of a terrestial planet. This is determined by how much light the planet gets. If you're too close, the water evaporates and causes a runaway greenhouse effect, adn you boil off the oceans. If you get too far out, it gets too cold. Water and carbon dioxide will freeze and cause glaciation. Even if the Earth's distance was moved away from teh sun by 5% disaster would come. Animal life would be impossible. That's also why the circular orbit like the Earth has is important. It needs to be continously in this habitable zone."
He goes on about how the sun and the moon play an extremely important part also, but hopefully you get the point. Life can't be created just anywhere. There are certain conditions that are needed and that are highly improbably anywhere else. Life is precious and we are here for a reason.
The quotes are from Guillermo Gonzalez, PhD. He coauthored The Privilaged Planet and is now a professor at Iowa State University and has research centers on low and intermediate mass stars and theories about stellar and planetary evolution.
People say that if you can fin a place anywhere in the universe where water stays liquid for a long enough period of time, then life will develop just like it did on Earth. Gonzalez says "It's true that in order to have life you need water - which is the universal solvent - for reactions to take place, as well has carbon, which serves as the core atom of the information-carrying structural molecules of life. But you also need a lot more. Humans require 26 essential elements; a bacterium about 16. Intermediate lifeforms are between those 2 numbers. The problem is that not just any planetary bosy will be the source of all those chemical ingredients in the necessary forms and amounts."
People have thought that maybe e.t life could be built in a radically different form like based on silicon instead of carbon. "That just won't work. Chemistry is one of the better understood areas of science. We know that you just can't get certain atoms to stick together in sufficient number and complexity to give you large molecules like carbon can. You just can't get other types of liquids to dissolve as many differnt kinds of chemicals as you can with water. There's something like half a dozen different properties of both water and carbon that are optimal for life. Nothing else comes close. Silicon falls far short of carbon. Life isn't easy to create. They think it's enough merely to have liquid water because they see life as an epiphenomenon - just a piece of slime mold growing on an inert piece of granite. The Earth's geology and biology interact very tightly wiht each other. YOu can't think of life as being independent of the geophysical and meteorphysical processes of the planet. They interact in a very intimate way. So you need not only the right chemicals for life but also a planetary enviroment that's tuned to life."
When asked about life on Mars he replied with this. "It would be very difficult. From the magnetic field to plate tectonitcs to the carbon dioxide cycle - ongoing life depends on a variety of very complicated interactions with the planet. People generally think that because they plant a seed and it grows that it's easy to create the right enviroment for life, but that's misleading. A good example is the hermetically sealed biosphere that some people constructed in Arizona several years ago. They thought it would be relatively easy to create a self-contained enviroment conducive to life, but they had a devil of a time trying to make it work. The only thing that doesn't need oxygen are some microorganisms that breathe methane. BUt larger organisms, which need to regulate their metabolism, are invariably oxygen-breathers. The oxygen gets mixed in with the ocean and transported into deep waters. SO those organisms are very directly tied to the surface and the overall ecosystem of the planet."
Gonzalez, along with Don Brownlee and Peter Ward of U of Washington, developed a concept called the Galactic Habitable Zone - a zone where habitable planets might be possible. Like when Drake and Sagan sent a message to M13, it was useless for life would be impossible there for 2 reasons. First, globular clusters are among the oldest things in the galaxy and their stars have a very low abundance of heavy elements. They are made up entirely of hydrogen and helium. Second reason is sulfur. The earliest stars were made up of that. When the starts exploded, teh elements got expelled into the interstellar medium. Clusters are so densely packed wiht stars that they wouldn't allow for stable, circular orbits to exist around them. The gravitational pull of hte stars would create elliptical obrits that would take a hypothetical planet into extremes of cold and heat, which would create a life-prohibitive situation.
When asked about other intelligent life in other types of galaxies this is how he responded. "You see, galaxies have varying degrees of star formation, where interstellar gases coalesce to form stars, star clusters, and massive stars that blow up as supernovae. PLaces with active star formation are very dangerous, because that's where you have supernovae exploding at a fairly high rate. IN our galaxy, those dangerous places are primarily in the spiral arms, where there are also hazardous giant molecular clouds. We're very far from the nucleus of the galaxy which is also a dangerous place. There is a massive black hole in the middle of nearly every large galaxy. Lots of high energy is released that is very dangerous for life forms. The composition of a spirial galaxy changes as you go out from the center. The abundance of heavy elements is greater towards the center, b/c that's where star formation has been more vigorous over the history of the galaxy. The outer regions of the disk are less likely to have Earth-type planets. If you put all this together - the inner region of the galaxy is much more dangerous from radiation and other threats; the outer part isn't going to be able to form Earth-like planets b/c of the lack of heavy elements; and the thin disk of our galaxy helps our sun stay in its desireable circular orbit. An eccentric orbit could cause it to cross spiral arms and visit the dangerous inner regions of the galaxy, but being circular it remains in the safe zone. "
He talks more about the other types of galaxies but they all come up with the same result.
He was asked how our solar system contributes to life on Earth. "For example, Jupiter - which is more than 300 times the mass of the Earth - acts as a shield to protect us from too many comet impacts. It deflects them and keeps many from coming into the inner solar system. Also, planets in the inner solar system protect us from getting bombarded by asteroids. They are mainly between Mars and Jupiter. The first line of defense is Mars and Venus. Another concept is the Circumstellar Hibitable Zone. That's the region around a star where you can have liquid water on teh surface of a terrestial planet. This is determined by how much light the planet gets. If you're too close, the water evaporates and causes a runaway greenhouse effect, adn you boil off the oceans. If you get too far out, it gets too cold. Water and carbon dioxide will freeze and cause glaciation. Even if the Earth's distance was moved away from teh sun by 5% disaster would come. Animal life would be impossible. That's also why the circular orbit like the Earth has is important. It needs to be continously in this habitable zone."
He goes on about how the sun and the moon play an extremely important part also, but hopefully you get the point. Life can't be created just anywhere. There are certain conditions that are needed and that are highly improbably anywhere else. Life is precious and we are here for a reason.
"If there were no eternal consciousness in a man, if at the bottom of everything there were only a wild ferment, a power that twisting in dark passions produced everything great or inconsequential; if an unfathomable insatiable emptiness lay hid beneath everything, what would life be but despair?"
Soren Kierkegaard
Soren Kierkegaard
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raum
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what about other dimensions? did he address that.
i am sorry but a scientist who says that the biosphere of Terra is one for the annuls of irreproducible results, just because of its complexity, as we currently understand it...
nope, and for him to mention Jupiter as a bullet shield, and neglect to mention the interior resonance of the solar system to polarize the electromagnetic spectrums that keep our INNER CORE in cyclotronic motion... which achieves our annual and diurnal orbits.,.. what kind of mess is that? UC berkeley actually records the signatures of the planets that are recieved on terra, and meansures them for their presence in our Latent Electromagnetic Field. It is likely ancient observations of this same phenomenon is the basis for the philosophy of Astrology... though there is no proven accureacy of the supposed import, it is likely a inspiration that there would be.
i am sorry but a scientist who says that the biosphere of Terra is one for the annuls of irreproducible results, just because of its complexity, as we currently understand it...
nope, and for him to mention Jupiter as a bullet shield, and neglect to mention the interior resonance of the solar system to polarize the electromagnetic spectrums that keep our INNER CORE in cyclotronic motion... which achieves our annual and diurnal orbits.,.. what kind of mess is that? UC berkeley actually records the signatures of the planets that are recieved on terra, and meansures them for their presence in our Latent Electromagnetic Field. It is likely ancient observations of this same phenomenon is the basis for the philosophy of Astrology... though there is no proven accureacy of the supposed import, it is likely a inspiration that there would be.
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AYHJA
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Man, is that the best he could come up with..? Shit tt, I'm disappointed...Man, water is a basic ass element...Hydrogen, and Oxygen...They are selling machines that literally pull water our of the air for drinking...With literally BILLIONS of galaxies and planets with solar systems, that because of water, we are unique..? Man, I must need to read that shit myself, cause that really sounded bogus...
Granted, I need a nap...But I'll be back when I've had some rest....
Granted, I need a nap...But I'll be back when I've had some rest....
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trashtalkr
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What he's saying is that there is so much that needs to go right for there to be a planet that is able to have life on it. Even though there are billions of planets out there, it would be nearly impossible to find one that is capable. There is too much that has to go right.
"If there were no eternal consciousness in a man, if at the bottom of everything there were only a wild ferment, a power that twisting in dark passions produced everything great or inconsequential; if an unfathomable insatiable emptiness lay hid beneath everything, what would life be but despair?"
Soren Kierkegaard
Soren Kierkegaard
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AYHJA
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Man, that's almost not even true for our own solar system..! Shit, they've found what looks like the fossils of micro-organisms on Mars...
And how does this give way to little things like...Hmm...Ionno, evolutions and adaptations..? Life finds a way man, it always does...It may not be life that we can immediately recognize, but shit, same could be said from the other side...I find it hard to believe a well versed scientist would be inclined to think otherwise...Unless he is trying to make some kind of seperation between life and intelligence, and even that is iffy...
And even more confusing, is that I know you have a creationist standpoint TT...How do you believe in both..?
And how does this give way to little things like...Hmm...Ionno, evolutions and adaptations..? Life finds a way man, it always does...It may not be life that we can immediately recognize, but shit, same could be said from the other side...I find it hard to believe a well versed scientist would be inclined to think otherwise...Unless he is trying to make some kind of seperation between life and intelligence, and even that is iffy...
And even more confusing, is that I know you have a creationist standpoint TT...How do you believe in both..?
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trashtalkr
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both what?
"If there were no eternal consciousness in a man, if at the bottom of everything there were only a wild ferment, a power that twisting in dark passions produced everything great or inconsequential; if an unfathomable insatiable emptiness lay hid beneath everything, what would life be but despair?"
Soren Kierkegaard
Soren Kierkegaard
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AYHJA
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How do you believe in a creationist viewpoint, and a scientific one..? This guy obviously feels that the creation of the universe was a unique experience, and that what happened here in our soloar system didn't happen anywhere else...
Now, I believe the big bang happened, and that spawned superior intelligence...I believe humans here on earth are the creation of such a being, and I believe there are other places in the universe that are like this...So, how do you believe in God, but yet think that we are a miraculous accident..?
Now, I believe the big bang happened, and that spawned superior intelligence...I believe humans here on earth are the creation of such a being, and I believe there are other places in the universe that are like this...So, how do you believe in God, but yet think that we are a miraculous accident..?
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