ADN

The simple fact that you have to THINK about the shit means that it's not constant...If left up to you, it is relative...

QUOTE(DeEje)I dont think a universal God could create a relative world, look at the laws of nature, etc..

That brings me right back to a question I asked earlier in the thread that I don't think ever got an answer...

Why would the Lord of the Universe create us anyway..???? Why would a being (As such is your perception of God) infinitely more powerful and everlasting than a human...Create something SO fucked up in the first place, if his intention was creation from the jump off..?

There are two absolute truths, and I named them both...Offering up an argument that says anything else is futile, please choose another direciton to roll in...God judging the heart for decisions..? C'mon now...I'm a God fearing man, and that's far fetched to me...I believe you serve yourself, and in doing so act accordingly to God...To your God....

Well, I think God exists more than in yourself..

I do not know why God created us. But please explain how that = ethical relativism..

How would serving yourself be serving God? Doesn't God want you to serve Him?

Let me break it down again...

I believe that God is an all encompassing energy...He is all things, he is OF all things...As such, he can exist in perfection...

I believe that your spirit/soul/life force is a direct result of you being part of that divine will to exist...( The"I AM") ...Upon realizing that you are such, you have a responsibility to use and hone that gift to help others do the same...Each and every person in the world feeling one with everything around it = paradise...The unconditional love so outlined by every major doctrine ever written says this...

An analogy of this is say you were a soldier in the military...By fighting for you life, you are thus serving the greater good of the armed forces...Uncle Sam isn't going to care that you killed 20 men because you were scared to death for your own survival...He's just going to care that you killed them 20, which solidifies your place among the elite...

I believe our LOTU works in similar fashion...Which is why it is pointless to have rules, because there is one objective, and many ways to go about achieving that objective...Don't care how you get it done, just get it done...We do not all start out on a level playing field, and no matter which way you cut it, the field will only be level one way...

Make Sense..?

## 7-4-7 ##

...let me just cut in, and say that, if I understand what you all mean by god, I would have to think that "he" doesn't "want" anything, simply because "he" would not need anything!. Human royalty is usually enslaved to such things as worship...booooooooooooy do we looooooooooove getting our nuts licked by what we perceive to be lesser beings. I sincerely doubt a being such as the one we're discussing has ANY needs, as a matter of fact.

^^

That is EXACTLY what I was trying to say, X, thank you for wording it...A God completely conscious of himself as such initially...Wouldn't need insignificant little beings doing his bidding, and giving praise...I could drop a really furry theory about how I think it all went down...But if you follow any of the stuff I've dropped earlier in the thread, it is on a similar level...I am not saying we are NOT the product of intelligent design...Just that...We are not the direct design of TLOTU...

[-o<

Funny how
pas adikia hamartia esti.
is translated as " All wrongdoing is sin"

(which is really only half the verse, anyways.,)

"pas" means " Collectively, Each, Every, Everyone, and The Whole World."

"Pas" is a declinsion of Pan (as in Panorama), which means All, and is a name for the Masculine Nature of the Fertile God.,

"adakia" means "the injustice of the heart - and the unrighteous against the Law" a price for life.," It is the noun feminie declension of the verb "adikos" "to commit a crime"

hamartia means "to be without" - "to miss the mark" - "to be mistaken" - "that which is done wrong." This word is translated as sin. It is a declension of "ameros" - which means "to recieve one's award in allotment." i.e. "not recieve one's award."

esti is, for all purposes, the Greek root of our own "is" - i.e. a declension of "am, or being".

but the rest of the verse is "kai, estin, hamartia ou pros thanatos."

roughly, "and, is sin not as death?"

The translation of this is "The whole world is tainted with each sin, and is not sin unto death?"

Compare that to "All suffering in the world is felt by all who live in the world." - words of the Taoists and buddhists.



The idea is that we as a world bear sins, commited by individuals and collectively... for that is the purpose of the cristos; to redeem all humanity; not to die. and it has nothing to do with believing.

The word "Pistis" (believe, according to the Bible) means "act with the conviction of Truth."

The word "Elpis" (faith) means "expectation of good" or "expectation of evil."

Jeheshua never said that those who do not believe in him will go to hell. His apostles did, who did not live his life,.. and many of their works are grossly mistranslated, and downright manipulated.

vertical,
raum

So Raum, you believe that everyone goes to Heaven. Wait, you don't believe in Heaven do you. You just believe in reincarnation right?

I observe that different components of the human life force have different expiration dates, and some components can be made to be immortal.. and must transfer themselves to other personas to achieve their own end, which is to become as God unto other worlds (per Revelations, and many instances of the dialogues with the cristos).

One's awareness becomes more elevated to the more permanent aspects of the human life force as one spiritually develops. As far as heaven,.. I have observed that most westerners have no idea what heaven is, and think it is serenity and boredom. I have observed otherwise.

the word "Shamayim" (and god called the Firmament "Heaven", per Genesis.) is translated as "heaven" in the Bible 398 times - as "air" 21 times, and is used as a root in the word "habar-shamayim," which means Astrologers. Say what you like, that "Firmament" is the Hebrew Zodiac, called Mazloth.

As far as Shamayim,.. this is the "Heaven of God" and yet also the birds fly through the Shamayim. It means "sky, heaven, night sky, region of the stars." not city of gold.

In the new testement the word for heaven is "ouranos", which means the "vaulted expanse of the sky with all things in it. This is the region where the clouds and tempest gather and the thunder and lightening are produced. It is where the word "Uranus" comes from. Any version of the word "Heaven." There are two other words used for "Heaven" in distinct cases; basilia and mesouranema.

Basilia is translated as kingdom, and also (for some reason) translated as "Kingdom of heaven" (Repent, for the "Kingdom of Heaven" is at hand). This word is taken to mean the reign of the cristos. Its antiquated meaning is the "right of authority to rule over others, as a king.) However, this same word is the "Kingdom" that Satan tempted Jesu with (and he showed him all the "kingdoms" of the world. This is also the "Kingdom" mentioned in Matthew 6:10 (Thy Kingdom come) and the closing verse of the "Lord's Prayer" (For thine is the Kingdom). This word is used frequently by the Cristos.

mesouranema, formed of the words "mesos" (middle) and "anema" (wind) is translated as meaning "Midst of heaven" with all those angels flying through "the midst of heaven" in revelations Chapter 8, when in fact even before John's revelation, it was used by other philosophers and is specifically the "highest point in the heavens, which the sun occupies at noon, where what is done can be seen and heard by all the gods." It is a common Astological trait founded by Ptolemy that we call the "Mid-heaven". This word only appears in John's work.

as far as empty promises of happily ever after with no strife and your own mansion on a coud, I think it is really cute when people talk about it, and suggest they include a little more study in their religion than the images of heaven from looney tunes.

so. heaven... well, been in the sky,.. but not to uranus. reincarnation? parts of me.

but none of what i do is belief... it is Pistis.

vertical,
raum

If I may?
I understood it to be that Matter always exists, but it can and does change form. When its does energy is created. For example you have a piece of paper, set fire to it and it creates energy (heat, etc) and molecules change to carbon, gas's etc. Nothing gone - just changed.
When we die our molecules do not just disappear as the body decays -they change into other things... so on one level we are "Eternal".

With regards to re-incarnation and the afterlife, this deals with two different area's that bisect slightly. The "afterlife" deals with how our soul or spirit continues on somewhere else, not necessarily in a body.
Re-incarnation (which underpins most of the Asian religeons) deals with the soul using a progression of Bodies (of various forms) normally accepted to be on this planet. This progression can be a reward for good service to your superiors (Buddhist?) or good deeds performed without regard to reward (Hindi/Hindu?).

Some people believe that you can be re-incarnated as a "lower" form being animals, plants, insects even inanimate objects like rocks(Animism). This view validates for some people (Greenies & Vegans etc) the view that animals have souls. If their view is correct, that would mean that animals AND plants have souls ( I'm killing an Apple now), a view I do not subscribe to.

Maybe Animals do have a type of soul, different to the "human" soul, It would be sad to think that "Old Yellar", your pet dog who showed you so much unconditional love and affection doesn't fit in somewhere. Just a side point, this is a little like having kids - they love you unconditionally, no matter how Ugly, Stoopid, Fat or Lazy I am - oops I mean you.

I believe that on both physical and spirtual levels we continue on eternally. Not in this particular form we "inhabit" at the moment though.
Now to add another item into the mix, consider the theory of resurrection. The whole idea of Christianity is centered on resurrection. Can we "re-tread" these forms we now wear? That is a question I cannot answer yet. A question for the Big Guy/Gal/Alien.

BTW I was brought up a devout Christian. I do believe in an afterlife. I LOVE to eat meat and plants! I personally have never been re-incarnated, I was never a 12th Century Mystic, or Napoleon. Have you ever noticed that most people who believe in re-incarnation (or "channel") never claim to have been a slave, peon, peasant or village idiot, its always a Warrior Lord, Princess, Shaman Lord, Napoleon, Xena, General Custer or someone else fancy? (PURE UN-ADULTERATED BULLSHIT)
Just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions.....