Like many of you here, I am fascinated by religion and history...The marriage those two things have...Man it is an invaluable lesson, as you cannot know where you are going until you've known where you've been...This is the riddle of the modern man, and one that will likely not get solved in mass ever...I thought it would be neat if we talked about a few things that we haven't discussed before to see what ideas we can swap between us...I know we have talked (well raum, lol) at length about the Spear of Destiny, the Ark of the Covenant, and so forth...But, after seeing two similarly themed movies back to back, the old sleuth in me is kicking...
The Anti-Christ
To me, this makes the most interesting of all the dogma I have ever read...We all know that for each action, there is an equal and opposite reaction...Why wouldn't Jesus have an easily identifiable counterpart if he existed..? Who is to water to blood like Jesus is water to wine..?
There are several scriptures that point to the Anti-Christ as being easily identified by bearing the mark of the best, or 666...But, if I am not mistaken, there is a discourse in this very forum about the number six hundred and sixty six, and I don't recall it being likened to any beast...
What are your thoughts on the matter..?
Religious Dogma
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AYHJA
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raum
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[quote]The Anti-Christ
To me, this makes the most interesting of all the dogma I have ever read...We all know that for each action, there is an equal and opposite reaction...Why wouldn't Jesus have an easily identifiable counterpart if he existed..? Who is to water to blood like Jesus is water to wine..?[/quote]
Personally, I think the idea of an equal but opposite to Messhiach is rediculous. Messhiach is a point at which one is dissolving all opposites, and therefore the Love of Man becomes synonymous with the Unconditional Love of Divinity. If the Love of Messhiach is unconditional, so must his nature be. As this convergence point, he can by nature have no opposite.
Thus, to me, the anti-christos is that which stands as obstacle to one's own annointing. Defeating the False Prophet and undseating the Anti-Christ is part of the path of redemption. This is made possible TO the Aspirant, THROUGH Messhiach. The proof is through the sacrifice of the Angus Dei, or Lamb of God.
[quote]
There are several scriptures that point to the Anti-Christ as being easily identified by bearing the mark of the best, or 666...But, if I am not mistaken, there is a discourse in this very forum about the number six hundred and sixty six, and I don't recall it being likened to any beast...[/quote]
What are your thoughts on the matter..?
[/quote]
The ASCII value of Al Gore's name in all lowercase letters adds up to 666.
There you have it. /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
To me, this makes the most interesting of all the dogma I have ever read...We all know that for each action, there is an equal and opposite reaction...Why wouldn't Jesus have an easily identifiable counterpart if he existed..? Who is to water to blood like Jesus is water to wine..?[/quote]
Personally, I think the idea of an equal but opposite to Messhiach is rediculous. Messhiach is a point at which one is dissolving all opposites, and therefore the Love of Man becomes synonymous with the Unconditional Love of Divinity. If the Love of Messhiach is unconditional, so must his nature be. As this convergence point, he can by nature have no opposite.
Thus, to me, the anti-christos is that which stands as obstacle to one's own annointing. Defeating the False Prophet and undseating the Anti-Christ is part of the path of redemption. This is made possible TO the Aspirant, THROUGH Messhiach. The proof is through the sacrifice of the Angus Dei, or Lamb of God.
[quote]
There are several scriptures that point to the Anti-Christ as being easily identified by bearing the mark of the best, or 666...But, if I am not mistaken, there is a discourse in this very forum about the number six hundred and sixty six, and I don't recall it being likened to any beast...[/quote]
What are your thoughts on the matter..?
[/quote]
The ASCII value of Al Gore's name in all lowercase letters adds up to 666.
There you have it. /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
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AYHJA
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wvosis
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I haven't yet gotten to the Book of Revelations in my bible. But I always thought that the anti Christ was some sort of allegory or parable for sin overtaking virtue.
Sort of like how the Four Horsemen are symbolic of the evils they represent.
I mean really, I don't expect the world to end with a goat stepping on a seal and a Pale Horse coming from the sky...
Sort of like how the Four Horsemen are symbolic of the evils they represent.
I mean really, I don't expect the world to end with a goat stepping on a seal and a Pale Horse coming from the sky...
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Brains
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QUOTE(wvosis @ Jan 7 2007, 03:24 PM) I always thought that the anti Christ was some sort of allegory or parable for sin overtaking virtue.
continue.
continue.
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trashtalkr
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The term antichrist is only found in the epistles of John (1 John 2:18,22; 4:3; 2 John 7).
The antichrist is the one who opposes Christ and thus God. The antichrist is an eschatological (end times) person who will appear and deceive countless people near the time of Christ's return. The antichrist is associated with Satan and will be aided by demonic forces in his unholy movement against God and in his attempt to rule the nations of the world.
Most scholars agree that the antichrist will claim to be God and will rule many nations in Europe and bring the world to the brink of destruction.
Paul does not use the term "antichrist." Instead, he uses the term "man of lawlessness" in 2 Thess. 2:3 to describe an evil person who will stand in great opposition to God and His people. Paul speaks regarding the Day of the Lord...
"Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God," (2 Thess. 2:3).
There are Old Testament references to the antichrist, though the terms "antichrist" and "man of lawlessness" are not used. Instead, "the little horn" and "worthless shepherd" are used as they prophecy his arrival.
* Dan.7:8,22, "While I was contemplating the horns, behold, another horn, a little one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were pulled out by the roots before it; and behold, this horn possessed eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth uttering great boasts...22 I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them."
* Zech. 11:17, ¢‚¬Å“Woe to the worthless shepherd who leaves the flock! A sword will be on his arm and on his right eye! His arm will be totally withered, and his right eye will be blind.¢‚¬
From the Zechariah passage and the one found in Rev. 13:2-3, some theologians believe that the antichrist will suffer a head wound that will be fatal. But, like the devil who imitates the truth in order to deceive, the antichrist will rise from the dead. His resurrection will be assisted by Satan. However, he will retain his wounds. His right arm will be withered and he will be blind in his right eye.
"And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast," (Rev. 13:2-3).
The term "antichrist" is also used to describe a spiritual condition. In other words, it is descriptive of those people who oppose the true God. "Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour...22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son," (1 John 2:18,22). In 1 John 4:3 John says that all who do not confess Jesus are of the spirit of the antichrist, "and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world."
The antichrist is the one who opposes Christ and thus God. The antichrist is an eschatological (end times) person who will appear and deceive countless people near the time of Christ's return. The antichrist is associated with Satan and will be aided by demonic forces in his unholy movement against God and in his attempt to rule the nations of the world.
Most scholars agree that the antichrist will claim to be God and will rule many nations in Europe and bring the world to the brink of destruction.
Paul does not use the term "antichrist." Instead, he uses the term "man of lawlessness" in 2 Thess. 2:3 to describe an evil person who will stand in great opposition to God and His people. Paul speaks regarding the Day of the Lord...
"Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God," (2 Thess. 2:3).
There are Old Testament references to the antichrist, though the terms "antichrist" and "man of lawlessness" are not used. Instead, "the little horn" and "worthless shepherd" are used as they prophecy his arrival.
* Dan.7:8,22, "While I was contemplating the horns, behold, another horn, a little one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were pulled out by the roots before it; and behold, this horn possessed eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth uttering great boasts...22 I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them."
* Zech. 11:17, ¢‚¬Å“Woe to the worthless shepherd who leaves the flock! A sword will be on his arm and on his right eye! His arm will be totally withered, and his right eye will be blind.¢‚¬
From the Zechariah passage and the one found in Rev. 13:2-3, some theologians believe that the antichrist will suffer a head wound that will be fatal. But, like the devil who imitates the truth in order to deceive, the antichrist will rise from the dead. His resurrection will be assisted by Satan. However, he will retain his wounds. His right arm will be withered and he will be blind in his right eye.
"And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast," (Rev. 13:2-3).
The term "antichrist" is also used to describe a spiritual condition. In other words, it is descriptive of those people who oppose the true God. "Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour...22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son," (1 John 2:18,22). In 1 John 4:3 John says that all who do not confess Jesus are of the spirit of the antichrist, "and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world."
"If there were no eternal consciousness in a man, if at the bottom of everything there were only a wild ferment, a power that twisting in dark passions produced everything great or inconsequential; if an unfathomable insatiable emptiness lay hid beneath everything, what would life be but despair?"
Soren Kierkegaard
Soren Kierkegaard
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highlife
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Wvosis..... But I always thought that the anti Christ was some sort of allegory or parable for sin overtaking virtue.
me...Thats the way i tend to look at the devil and its influence in terms of personal growth but every once in a while that perfect temptation comes along at youre weakest moment and it makes you wonder. I dont put to much thought into the devil, angles or heaven. I believe they exist but i dont consider it possible to ever really know the details and its not needed in having a god relationship. As far as who or what will be the antichrist and when is nothing but a guess.
Wvosis...I mean really, I don't expect the world to end with a goat stepping on a seal and a Pale Horse coming from the sky
me...ROFL!!! ..I saw some thing like that at a petting zoo once. The time is near!!!!!
me...Thats the way i tend to look at the devil and its influence in terms of personal growth but every once in a while that perfect temptation comes along at youre weakest moment and it makes you wonder. I dont put to much thought into the devil, angles or heaven. I believe they exist but i dont consider it possible to ever really know the details and its not needed in having a god relationship. As far as who or what will be the antichrist and when is nothing but a guess.
Wvosis...I mean really, I don't expect the world to end with a goat stepping on a seal and a Pale Horse coming from the sky
me...ROFL!!! ..I saw some thing like that at a petting zoo once. The time is near!!!!!
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highlife
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trashtalker..you posted less than a minute before me..Thanks for the info. I had to look up what the "Apostiy" meant. I haven¢‚¬„¢t spent much time with revelations because people from the time of christs death until now have claimed we were in the end days. Imagine what they must have thought during the black plague. I do believe at some point it will happen but i view it as a cautionary piece that can help us in the here and now when listening to figures of authority.
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AYHJA
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Well, while I am sure that the bible doesn't mean things quite so literally, but just speaking in terms of opposites, reactions and so forth, the idea of an Anti Christ seems very likely...
Most dogma seems to point in the way of a person rising from the world of politics with a set agenda...Although, I'm not sure how much or more importantly what kind of damage he will do...I mean, turning the masses into devil worshipers seems wildly unlikely...
Supposing that the Anti Christ does exist or will come to pass, what do you guys think that he'll do..?
Most dogma seems to point in the way of a person rising from the world of politics with a set agenda...Although, I'm not sure how much or more importantly what kind of damage he will do...I mean, turning the masses into devil worshipers seems wildly unlikely...
Supposing that the Anti Christ does exist or will come to pass, what do you guys think that he'll do..?
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melkior
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QUOTE(AYHJA @ Jan 8 2007, 11:33 AM) Supposing that the Anti Christ does exist or will come to pass, what do you guys think that he'll do..?
Well if he really is the ANTI Christ, seems we'll have a lot less wine and lots of water.
Plus the number of fish will probably decrease. /:D" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt=":D" />
The Biblical Christ is Love. So I guess we can expect Hate if he ever comes.
Well if he really is the ANTI Christ, seems we'll have a lot less wine and lots of water.
Plus the number of fish will probably decrease. /:D" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt=":D" />
The Biblical Christ is Love. So I guess we can expect Hate if he ever comes.
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