ADN

Listening to a radio show called by "The Positive Mind with Armand DiMele" with guest Esther Perel and she came up with the statement (that she heard someplace else) of

"women are born women, men become men"

(the below may not be an exact quote as I was trying to type what she said)
"There is no ritual that women have to go out and prove their femininity, males have to go through rituals to prove that they can become men. That they are leaving the feminine inside of them. They are repudiating that part of themselves so that they can become tough, strong, fearless and whatever else is associated with masculinity."

I never really thought about it stated this this way, but thinking about it I guess that it is true. Along with the statement (of mine) society is more accepting of a "masculine" female than a "feminine" male.

What do you think?

I think this was about 40-45 minutes in there was further discussion of this.

If you want to listen to the show, it is an hour long and you can download it here - mp3 format.
(direct link)
http://digital-magic.tv/digitalplanet/t ... 071206.mp3
(web page)
http://digital-magic.tv/digitalplanet/t ... size=large

Women have rites of passage too. Most however, are INTIMATELY experiential.

Also, regarding the disdain of emfeminate males, that is pretty much a stale point, unless you live in a very rural area. At one time, however, this was epidemic, and specifically driven more by a class war of sorts than homophobia... until the 1900's.

Interesting topic...Especially considering that my generation is one of absent fathers...And I guess, considering that we were essentially raising ourselves through our peers in regards to masculinity, there is definitely some truth to that...

I was always kind of popular in high school, so I don't guess that I had to go through anything, but in grade school...There was definitely a point where I had to establish that I was manly, or wouldn't take no shit, or whatever you may want to call it...When she says, 'become men' there is an implication that she's not just talking about gender...Men generally have this grand view of responsibility...To be noble, brave...Protecting...Providing...These are things that are usually learned...

You may hear a woman say, 'You ain't a man,' to a man that hits a woman, or does something unchivalrously...It seems as even women have a grand view of men or manhood...I can't think of an instance where this is applicable to women, because largely, I think most women want in some way to be taken care of by a man, just as a man wants to some way take care of a woman...

A woman becoming or being a woman is a point I'd argue around domestication of some sort...Each gender has roles, mother, father, brother, sister...But when you say, 'Now that guy right there..? That's a man...' You know it means something more...