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The "mother of all bailouts"

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:47 am
by x3n
"The mother of all bailouts is getting the room-temperature shoulder:
http://business.theage.com.au/business/ ... -4ljs.html
''It's ... hard to tell the average American that we're going to continue to have foreclosures that destabilize neighbourhoods and deprive cities of revenues they need, but we're going to buy up the bad paper,'' committee chairman Barney Frank said on CBS' ''Face the Nation.''

There was similar sentiment among Democrats in the Senate.

''We totally understand the gravity of the moment ... but you cannot just turn over $US700 billion of taxpayer money and not insist that the taxpayer is going to be protected,'' Senate Banking Committee chairman Christopher Dodd told reporters.

Re: The "mother of all bailouts"

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:07 pm
by AYHJA
This is what's killing me...Just the general gist I get...

Republican POV: Dammit, just sign it...The need is dire..!
Democratic POV: Wait a minute, are we gonna bail out companies w/tax payer dollars and still let these companies foreclose on their homes..?

Situation sucks either way...

700 Billion dollar price tag...3 Page proposal...Hmm...

Re: The "mother of all bailouts"

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:19 am
by x3n
Kid, this fucking smells!

I reeeeeeally need to see that proposal or whatever this agreement is. I don't remember a single time in my life that I've witnessed a "proposal" being offered in a critical time, that wasn't in nature, a con.

Re: The "mother of all bailouts"

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:44 am
by raum
Kumicho wrote:This is what's killing me...Just the general gist I get...

Republican POV: Dammit, just sign it...The need is dire..!
Democratic POV: Wait a minute, are we gonna bail out companies w/tax payer dollars and still let these companies foreclose on their homes..?

Situation sucks either way...

700 Billion dollar price tag...3 Page proposal...Hmm...
Trying to prevent foreclosures on homes that were beyond people's means was the way we got into this mess. But it was easy to get a mortgage which is why home values went up disproportionately to the income of those same houses.

Then people renegotiated to pay less and less, and ended up owing more and more.

And the banks didn't care because they got their "interest only" morgage payments, and still got to kick people out. So govt. comes along and backs companies bailing people out, and home values rise, and so does national debt, but people keep buying anf flipping houses, and letting the govt take the bill in alot of cases.

shit got out of hand, and McCain and co-sponsors called for regulation and reform before 2005. Democrats and Rebulicans in majority shot it down and kept pumping up that debt to make people at least feel safe about their own homes. McCain wrote what would happen, and now; that is exactly what is happening.

BTW: there is a congressional recording of McCain's words.

Re: The "mother of all bailouts"

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:35 pm
by AYHJA
Oh, I'd love to read it...Cause my many accounts, Mr. Regulation was nothing but Mr. De-regulation for a number of years...

Re: The "mother of all bailouts"

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:57 pm
by raum
Kumicho wrote:Oh, I'd love to read it...Cause my many accounts, Mr. Regulation was nothing but Mr. De-regulation for a number of years...
FEDERAL HOUSING ENTERPRISE REGULATORY REFORM ACT OF 2005
The United States Senate

May 25, 2006

Sen. John McCain [R-AZ]: Mr. President, this week Fannie Mae’s regulator reported that the company’s quarterly reports of profit growth over the past few years were “illusions deliberately and systematically created” by the company’s senior management, which resulted in a $10.6 billion accounting scandal.

The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight’s report goes on to say that Fannie Mae employees deliberately and intentionally manipulated financial reports to hit earnings targets in order to trigger bonuses for senior executives. In the case of Franklin Raines, Fannie Mae’s former chief executive officer, OFHEO’s report shows that over half of Mr. Raines’ compensation for the 6 years through 2003 was directly tied to meeting earnings targets. The report of financial misconduct at Fannie Mae echoes the deeply troubling $5 billion profit restatement at Freddie Mac.

The OFHEO report also states that Fannie Mae used its political power to lobby Congress in an effort to interfere with the regulator’s examination of the company’s accounting problems. This report comes some weeks after Freddie Mac paid a record $3.8 million fine in a settlement with the Federal Election Commission and restated lobbying disclosure reports from 2004 to 2005. These are entities that have demonstrated over and over again that they are deeply in need of reform.

For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac–known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs–and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market. OFHEO’s report this week does nothing to ease these concerns. In fact, the report does quite the contrary. OFHEO’s report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay.

I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.

I urge my colleagues to support swift action on this GSE reform legislation.

Re: The "mother of all bailouts"

Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:59 am
by badpowers
McCain wrote what would happen, and now; that is exactly what is happening.
Despite his recent claims that he saw it coming, truthfully, McCain is not all that confident in his own soothsaying abilities:

Q: “Well the dimension of this problem may be surprising to a lot of people, but to many people, to many others there were feelings that there was something amiss, something was going too fast, something was a little too hot. Going back several years. Were you one of them? Or, I mean you’re a busy guy, you’re looking at a lot of things, maybe subprime mortgages wasn’t something you focused on every day. Were you surprised?

McCain: “Yeah. And I was surprised at the dot-com collapse and I was surprised at other times in our history..."

------------------------------------------------------------

The onus is on McCain to, at the very LEAST, clarify his real motivation for sponsoring that Act.

As for McCain's sponsoring of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, keep in mind that McCain voted for the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Financial Services Modernization Act back in 1999, which was ultimately passed. (53 Republican Senators plus one Democrat - AYE, 44 Democrats no Republicans - NAY)

The man who wrote the legislation (Phil Gramm) was McCain's chief economic advisor and campaign co-chair up until 2 months ago, when he made the infamous "nation of whiners" remark and was forced to step down. He is still an advisor to McCain and remains close to the campaign. According to Fortune Magazine, most of McCain’s positions on the economy are “Vintage Gramm.”

The legislation written by McCain's economic advisor rescinded "the Depression era's divorce of commercial banking activities from investment banking, called the Glass-Stegall Act of 1933. That opened a floodgate of "creative" financial instruments backed by notes and other commercial paper. Much of the banking regulation of the Roosevelt administration — including abandonment of the gold standard — made absolutely no sense, but markets can fail with dire short-run consequences under a fiat monetary system. With Glass-Stegall, Congress put its finger on and mitigated the tendency and temptations of banks to create massive costly externalities to society, in this case, by holding bundled mortgage-backed securities which were deemed safe by rating agencies but which ultimately failed the market test."

...

"The Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999 would make perfect sense in a world regulated by a gold standard, 100% reserve banking, and no FDIC deposit insurance; but in the world as it is, this "deregulation" amounts to corporate welfare for financial institutions and a moral hazard that will make taxpayers pay dearly." --Robert B. Ekelund.

http://mises.org/story/3098

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Republicans, and many who simply call themselves fiscal conservatives for that matter, are in fact engaged in a brand of socialism. I like to call the practice "reverse socialism." Ekelund calls it corporate socialism.

Instead of advocating the highest income earners paying higher taxes in order to support social programs for those crippled by the economy, we have the government protecting free reign of financial institutions to enter high risk/high reward type ventures, knowing that the Republicans will be there to push through massive bail outs to save these corporations from their own greed, running huge defecits in the process and putting the US further into debt. The average taxpayer is relied upon to essentially reward the gross incompetence and recklessness of senior executives.

Stealing from the poor to give to the rich, courtesy of the architect of John McCain's economic policy.

Re: The "mother of all bailouts"

Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:35 pm
by AYHJA
raum wrote: shit got out of hand, and McCain and co-sponsors called for regulation and reform before 2005. Democrats and Rebulicans in majority shot it down and kept pumping up that debt to make people at least feel safe about their own homes. McCain wrote what
I found this information to be very interesting...For 1, surely if this were not true without some sort of knockout type counter punch that could be offered in rebuttal, there would have been a McCain ad all over it...So, I've done some digging...

For one, McCain did not write the bill, he co-sponsored it...Just a small bit of information, but information nonetheless...He cosigned, not pioneered...

Some various points from other sources that echo my own thoughts:
  • Republicans held the majority in Congress when this bill was introduced. There is a rumor floating that this bill was blocked by the Dems, that's not true...
  • From the bill itself - "Excludes the Federal Home Loan Banks from certain securities reporting requirements."
Seems to me, the bill was introduced for a different reason, angled more at the internal issues and management, not the actual root of the issue we are experiencing now...
PolitiFact wrote:In his appearances, McCain tries to connect the accounting scandals with the broader meltdown in the mortgage markets. But the current crisis arose because banks and mortgage companies made risky “subprime” loans to people with poor credit histories that were then packaged into securities and sold to institutional investors. As interest rates rose and home prices began to fall, homeowners unable to refinance the loans or sell their properties began to default, unleashing a cascade effect through financial markets. That phenomenon had nothing to do with Fannie and Freddie’s internal problems; in fact, both firms were praised for cushioning the financial free fall and keeping the market afloat by spending billions of dollars to purchase subprime loans.

All McCain was talking about then was the potential fallout of accounting troubles in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. He didn't say anything about a freewheeling climate among creditors that had major financial institutions becoming badly leveraged on bad loans.
http://snipurl.com/3tkcg [www_politifact_com]

Both parties have shit stains on their hands of this...But to think Mr. Mac saw this coming when he has since (see McCain/Palin dump thread) continued to say that the economy was strong is a helluva stretch, my friends...

Re: The "mother of all bailouts"

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:09 am
by raum
The economy is strong. In fact, the poor are poised to grow quite a bit right now, if they know how to adjust their lives, conserve disposable income, minimize necessities, and invest in stock that is very undervalued coming into a holiday season.

I also didn't say he wrote the bill. He wrote his reasons for endorsement. they happened. he might have read them out of a coloring book, or found them in another senator's trash bin, but HE DID ENTER THEM AS A STATEMENT. That was on the record.

I oppose the bailout, without some protection of taxpayer assets.
Furthermore, I oppose a complete bail out, and think that a full bailout is too facist to happen without serious repercussions. I mean, can you really grow to large to fail? screw that. I know several investors, real estate people, and some straight moguls who would be able to pick some scraps off of Freddie and Fannieand could get some people some jobs in the process. This bullshit isn't just Socialism, it's FACISM!

If we have companies too large to fail, they are guilty of Monopoly, and should be forced to diversify their assets and equity to be competitive. Eat the rich.

Re: The "mother of all bailouts"

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:47 pm
by blixa
raum wrote:The economy is strong. In fact, the poor are poised to grow quite a bit right now, if they know how to adjust their lives, conserve disposable income, minimize necessities, and invest in stock that is very undervalued coming into a holiday season.

lol raum what world are you living in lol
anyway

Is there anyone who has actually benefited from this situation?