ADN

Do you think that there will ever be a day where institutional racism does not exist?

As a "scholar" in both sociology and philosophy, I've done a lot of reading and writing on this in varied forms, but I've yet to REALLY think about if it is ever possible to get to the point where institutional racism will cease to be.

There are of course a number of different ways to attack this question, and I've done so in a few different frames of thought and using a couple different methods, but considering race to begin with is nothing more than a social construct arbitrarily chosen to differentiate people, through biological and genetic advancements do you think we'll reach a point when it all becomes relative?

Short answer: I don't know.

Elaboration: I suppose it is an "ideal" place in time when this could eventually could be achieved, but I highly doubt seeing it accomplished even in my lifetime, at least here in the Western Hemisphere (both North and South America).

There is just too much informal uneasiness and passed-down points of parochial views when regarding one's inherent race, that it becomes hard for a society as a whole to overcome that yoke which bears them down. Even if say, the state of Wyoming was the most progressive area of the country (just an example, I have no idea if it is), there will still be a certain family and/or town that cannot or will not accede to change because it is not within their best interest to do so. Perhaps they have no need to interact with others outside their circle of community ties, or they just wish to live in peace without accepting those in which they feel do meet "their standards", but I don't see this tradition changing.

Sure, with time, this way of thinking will shrink significantly, and we only to need to look at the past 50 years in America to see it as a living and breathing example of general communion, but that doesn't mean everyone is willing to hold hands. Like there will always be an exception to the rule, there will always be curmudgeons who hide behind the veil of racism to keep others down. And as it is, those select curmudgeons sometimes can wield a significant share of influence and power (passed-down family corporations,political leaders, etc.), so their bias can trickle down to their subordinates, and so the cycle of prejudice will still continue through the years.

I think of the U.K. as more progressive in terms of race relations than the U.S., but I've also seen much more blatant racism/"regional pride" being vocalized there than here. People care too much where they were born, and in that recollection of pride, they fail to see where (and when) they are living now.

The more and more that I think about things like this that are fucked up in the world, the more that I think that not only will it never go away, but that we will be unable to exist without it...

The truth of the matter is we are all different...Some of us get it, and some of us will not...Some of us will learn things without ever being taught, some of us will learn things that are written onto a chalkboard, some will learn with tutors, and some just will not get it...For everything that I personally perceive as being 'fucked up' if you will, I can also see how it is necessary...I am not sure when this change in my train of thought took place...But I do think what way now...I mean, to dumb it down, if someone didn't fuck up making heart medicine, we might not have Viagra...Ideally, you want to eliminate mistakes or things that don't go according to plan or aren't Utopian...

But the truth of the matter is that we need these things, and they will exist and be made real by all consciously or unconsciously...We have learned to live with it, much faster than we would learn to live without it...

That's a very interesting thought. From your perspective then, what about racism, or why, do you think its necessary? I mean, folks in America try to make it seem like it doesn't exist all the time, through colorblind racism and the other four frames through which people justify their own prejudges, but I'm intrigued to see what you have to say concerning the necessity of it.

And for IO, I read your post earlier before work, and need some more time to digest it before responding, as I'm leaving right now lol.

Not to brush off the question, but my answer is really just that simple...All things must have balance...It's just a universal law of nature...The more we fight it, the harder shit becomes for us...

I understand the general point you were making,

But what about this has a universal law of nature feel?

To me it's so blatantly created that I have a hard time seeing it that way.

The way in which we exist is as the place we exist...Whether we willfully or consciously make the decision is decided for some, chosen for others...

Racist parents don't necessarily breed outwardly racist children...You can grow up in a house where Mom/Dad drop the N-bomb on a daily...You either choose to do it, or you are disgusted by it...I know plenty...And I mean plenty of people with parents who are this way...My HS girlfriend's dad would have probably murdered both of us if he had known we were dating...Not only did she date black guys, she had half black children...So he spent the first half of his life being a racist prick, and the second half he spends making up for the error in his ways when little half back grandchildren calling him Pawpaw...

So, for institutional racism, its still the same principle...Some people can't help who they are...You just have to respect and see the beauty in all things in order to embrace a greater truth...

That seems to be more of a case for personal prejudices over institutional racism. You could make the argument that it is those personal prejudices that helped created and continue to maintain the institutional racism, but it seems like there is a bigger picture here.

Drew wrote:That seems to be more of a case for personal prejudices over institutional racism.

Are the institutions you speak of formed or postulated by anything other than human beings..? If so, please clarify, but if not, this is something formed by the sum of its parts, and thus it is the parts that must be examined...Our personal prejudices, bias, and experiences form everything about us...They both unite and divide us...An institution is a collection of things, people, and ideas...And they are not always inherently 'evil' in nature...

A prejudice isn't quite the right word for what I'm saying, prejudice implies unreasonable...It is not unreasonable to want to be around what's familiar and comfortable...10 white men get together and start a club about great places to get tans...They grow and grow and grow...Soon, there are 3,000 members...Men who came together to talk about getting tans soon socialize and start other ideas...They start a company, and employ the 3,000 men from the tan club to run it...A black guy walks into the company, puts in an application...A white guy walks in and does the same...The head of HR is an original member of the tan club...Which one will he hire first given that they have the same qualifications..?

Institutional racism works a lot like that...It has done so for our schools, businesses, and everywhere else institutions are formed...How is this helpful..? I got my college career started at a historically black university...An experience I would not have had if institutional racism did not exist at some point in time...That black man who put in his application to the tan club company and was denied, decides to open a barbershop where 100% of his clients are black...A white guy walks in, puts in an application, but will likely not be hired...

Usually its the size and nature of these things that determine whether they get the label of being racist or not, but you see the point...

The more we fight it, the harder shit becomes for us

Taoist philosophy turns me on...Come here big boy

If institutional racism can be eliminated, it will be for the wrong reasons. Affirmative action (whether or not you agree with it) didn't catch on because it made everyone feel all warm and fuzzy, it caught on because 1) White Guilt is one of the most powerful forces in our country (see Weeds Season 3 I think) but mainly 2) The economic benefits that resulted from being viewed as "fair" when being fair was in style.

As Ty said, as long as prejudice exists, so will racism. I will go a degree further and say that prejudice exists because we use good and bad to quantify morality. I have abandoned most of my ideas of good and bad in exchange for actuality and potential. I think until we start doing this racially, we will still fight institutional racism, and all racism for that matter.