Doomsday for the Economy?
Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 7:28 pm
Doomsday for the Economy?
(three articles)
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... rse/62505/
Is the U.S. Economy So Bad It Can't Get Much Worse?
By Daniel Indiviglio
New and existing home sales are at drastic lows. Consumer sentiment is extremely weak. Auto sales in August hit a floor not seen in decades. The unemployment rate remains close to double-digits. It's easy to go on and on about some of the grim features of the current U.S. economy. In fact, things are so awful that you could ask: are things so bad already that they can't get much worse?
This claim was made by a Bank of America economist in a Bloomberg article on Thursday. It says:
The sectors of the economy that traditionally drive it into recession are already so depressed it's difficult to see them getting a lot worse, said Ethan Harris, head of developed markets economics research at BofA Merrill Lynch Global Research in New York. Inventories are near record lows in proportion to sales, residential construction is less than half the level of the housing boom and vehicle sales are more than 30 percent below five years ago.
His point is well-taken. Some of these figures are already so brutally low that it's hard to imagine that they could sink much further. And if the economy keeps even its current sluggish pace, then the U.S. won't double dip -- it will just endure a painfully slow recovery. But is Harris right -- are things so bad that it's actually unrealistic to imagine they could get much worse?
One way to determine this would be to look at sales data. But that's not enough. There are lots of moving variables that can affect sales like population, wages, taxes, etc. So let's look at the ratio of personal consumption expenditures to personal disposable income. That should provide a good measure of how willing consumers are to spend. The ratio serves as a sort of economic comfort indicator based on the amount of the money people have they can and are spending. If the ratio is already at a very low level historically, then the thesis above is correct, and it would be very unlikely to see it fall much further.
This is a trailing three-month average of the ratio, which helps get rid of some of the noise. As you can see, consumption spending-to-disposable income has fallen recently, but still stands at 0.907 -- well above its 2009 low of 0.894. That variance might not seem like a lot, but it's a difference of $130 billion in annual spending.
So how big a change is that in terms of the entire U.S. economy? Let's imagine that consumer confidence fell further and drove spending to match that 2009 ratio low, with everything else remaining constant since the end of the second quarter. That $130 billion decline in spending would bring down GDP by 0.9%.
You may notice from the chart that there's an even deeper low that was hit in 1992, when the ratio was at 0.892. If spending dropped to that point, GDP would decline by $155 billion and GDP would drop 1.1%. Certainly, such outcomes are clearly within the realm of possibility, if consumers felt renewed uneasiness about the economy.
And what happens if GDP declines due to consumption? Businesses would sense weaker demand and would respond with additional layoffs. That would then reduce GDP even further. The dominos could continue to fall after that, pushing consumer confidence down even more.
Of course, if such a negative GDP move persisted for a few quarters, then the dreaded double dip would be upon us. So things aren't so bad that a double dip is out of the question. But even if the U.S. did double dip, considering how weak the economy is already, the dip would probably be a relatively shallow one, compared to the deep GDP declines we saw in late 2008 through early 2009.
This article available online at:
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... rse/62505/
Copyright © 2010 by The Atlantic Monthly Group. All Rights Reserved.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... omy/62445/
5 Doomsday Scenarios for the U.S. Economy
By Derek Thompson
By Derek Thompson and Daniel Indiviglio
It's been a brutal summer for the economy. The housing sector, like a balloon batted in the air one last time by the government credit, resumed its inevitable fall. Economic growth slowed to a lead-footed 1.6 percent, and job growth is even more anemic. Meanwhile, consumers are cranky, the trade gap is gaping.
Most signs point to a slow and steady recovery, but what if the pessimists are right, again? What if the United States isn't in the slow-lane to recovery, but rather on the precipice of another decline -- a double dip?
To see where this re-recession might begin, my colleague Dan Indiviglio and I imagined five financial earthquakes, each with a single epicenter: housing, consumers, toxic assets, Europe, and the debt. The following five scenarios are listed in order of likelihood.
1. Housing's Mini-Bubble Pops
Perhaps nothing poses as a big of a concern to the U.S. economy as its housing market. It's unclear how the government's efforts to stabilize the market through a buyer credit, ultra-low mortgage rates, and mortgage modification programs will pan out. Did it just create another mini-bubble that's beginning to pop now that the support has been withdrawn?
Here's the scenario. Weak home sales and continuing foreclosures result in climbing real estate inventory. This has two effects. First, it makes new homes even less attractive which further reduces construction jobs. Second, it puts downward pressure on home prices, which makes it harder for struggling homeowners to sell their home to avoid foreclosure and also keeps strategic default rates high, exacerbating the problem. Lower home values encourage Americans to save more and spend less, since their wealth is effectively reduced. The Dow drops and credit markets tighten even further, suffocating private investment just as homeowners bunker down and slash spending. Growth turns negative.
2. You Break the Economy
You, the American consumer, are reloading savings after a debt-fueled decade. But as any general will tell you, when an entire squad reloads at once, it leaves everybody vulnerable. It's the same with the economy.
Here's the scenario. Consumer sentiment continues to fall slowly, and spending turns negative again. Small businesses hold off to replenish their inventories or add new workers. Wages and hours freeze, and unemployment takes a leap toward 10 percent in October. Congress is paralyzed, because it's only weeks away from the mid-terms. The stock market sees business revenue trending flat, joblessness rising and Congress doing nothing, and it sparks a 300-point sell-off. Americans frightful for their savings cut back spending even more the next month, and overall growth turns negative.
3. Toxic Assets Return
If you closely followed the bank bailout, then you know it wasn't originally billed as simply throwing money at the banks. Instead, the Treasury intended to purchase the toxic assets from banks, which were the source of investors' uncertainty concerning bank stability. But the Treasury couldn't figure out a way to do this quickly enough to make it effective. As a result, the banks were largely stuck with these bad assets. We just don't know how bad, yet.
Here's the scenario. The residential real estate market's problems continue. Even once foreclosures begin to decline, we see waves of defaults, as modification program participants re-default at rates of 30% to 50%. Commercial mortgage-backed securities continue to deteriorate, as some businesses struggle with weak consumer demand. Home and commercial real estate values keep declining, and so do the value of the assets that back them. Banks with exposure to these toxic securities see another round of losses, and investors question their stability. The market plummets, credit freezes, and growth turns negative.
4. Europe Falls Apart
Europe seems to have avoided an all-out collapse of confidence in its ability to pay back its debt. But things can change, and fast fast. Indeed, the Greek debt crisis went from ignorable wire stories to front page news in a matter of days.
Here's the scenario. Slow growth in weak Eurozone states like Greece, Spain, and Italy turns negative and spooks investors, who demand higher returns on government debt. Europe's bond rates spike. Countries announce further austerity -- tax increases and spending cuts -- which strangles our biggest export market. The EU central bank responds by announcing a plan to write down troubled debt, which dings some Americans banks.
In a flight to quality debt, the dollar appreciates. This hurts our exports even more. As the trade deficit gapes open and manufacturing's good run dead ends, the stock market plummets, taking household wealth down with it. Families looking to restore balance sheets cut back on spending, and the American producer loses the American consumer and the European buyer. Growth turns negative.
5. Debt Finally Catches Up To Us
Interest rates on U.S. debt are low today for one big reason. Investors trust the United States, at least more than they trust other countries. If the people giving us money suddenly have as little faith in America as Americans, that could change, and quickly.
Here's the scenario. The IMF recently said the United States has a 25 percent chance of seeing dramatically higher interest rates in the near future. But the bond market can strike without warning, as it did in Europe earlier this year. If uncertainty with our political process gets reflected in our interest rate, we'll have a harder time affording debt, 55% of which has to be rolled over in the next three years. Pension and mutual funds with government debt would be written down, causing Americans to save even more of their paychecks. We'd be left with two bad choices: tax cuts to juice consumption or tax hikes to please our lenders. But at that point, it would be too late to avoid a double dip.
Photo credits from top: kworth30 (Flickr); Wikipedia; Wikipedia; Wikipedia; infrogmation (Flickr)
This article available online at:
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... omy/62445/
Copyright © 2010 by The Atlantic Monthly Group. All Rights Reserved.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100903/ap_ ... _recession
Experts see trouble ahead for developed world
By DAN PERRY, Associated Press Writer
Fri Sep 3, 1:37 pm ET
CERNOBBIO, Italy – Is the global economy out of the woods? Two years after near-meltdown, with the U.S. looking sluggish, equity markets groggy and Europeans fighting a debt crisis, experts gathered in Italy offered a generally gloomy outlook — especially for the United States and much of the industrialized world.
The doomsayers were led by New York University economist Nouriel Roubini, who warned in booming tones that "there is a significant risk of a double-dip recession in the United States" as well as in Japan and many European countries.
Some of the assembled experts and leaders at the annual Ambrosetti Forum on the shores of Lake Como were somewhat more upbeat: economist Edwin Truman, a senior fellow of the Peterson Institute for International Economics, predicted that "the most likely global outlook is subpar growth."
But most appeared to agree on a sobering array of basic problems standing in the way of true recovery:
• Many of the growth drivers in place since the collapse of Lehman Brothers are winding up or have ended, including not only the massive stimulus spending but tax breaks, schemes such as the "cash for clunkers" program and — for some countries like Russia — high commodity prices.
• The stimulus deemed necessary to jump-start moribund economies soon causes deficits and debt, upsetting the markets enough to spur austerity — which undermines growth.
• Most of the world's growth stems from a developing world led by China — which is so dependent on exports that it needs the West to continue to buy, and so will suffer if recovery in the rich world proves short-lived.
• Europe continues to lose competitiveness partly because of the euro, which — for all the fretting over its dip earlier this year at the height of the Greek debt crisis — remains high in purchasing price parity terms versus the U.S. dollar.
• The sector that is widely seen as the spark of the global recession — U.S. real estate — has not recovered, with house-buying flat and the mortgage market, with its related financial instruments, essentially still in ruins.
• The jobs picture is not improving and in parts of the developed world — such as Spain, with some 20 percent unemployment — it is disastrous.
The warnings come amid mixed news on indicators. The European Central Bank raised its growth projections Thursday and its president, Jean-Claude Trichet, said recession was "not in the cards." But the bank said the situation remained uncertain and that it would keep measures to supply banks with additional credit in place until the end of the year.
The U.S. unemployment rate rose in August for the first time in four months as hiring by private employers proved insufficient to keep pace with a large increase in the number of people looking for work. The Labor Department said Friday that companies did add a net total 67,000 new jobs last month, down from July's upwardly revised total of 107,000.
But more than a half-million Americans resumed their job searches, which drove up the jobless rate to 9.6 percent from 9.5 percent in July — a figure above the rate in Britain and Germany.
"I see a very weak labor market," said Roubini, who gained celebrity for predicting the global collapse of 2008 when others were still celebrating the boom times. He noted noting unemployment is close to 10 percent and almost 17 percent when including discouraged workers or partially employed ones.
He puts the chance of recession at 40 percent or more — a position he has staked in recent weeks — and said even weak growth would still feel like a recession.
"The U.S. has to create 150,000 every month in the private sector just to stabilize the rate and prevent it from rising," he said. "We'd have to create 300,000 jobs every month for the next three years just to bring back the level of employment to before this recession started," Roubini said.
"Nobody ... believes the U.S. is going to create any time any amount of jobs like that," he said.
And even that wouldn't be enough when taking into account the young people entering the labor market, he said.
Harvard University historian Niall Ferguson noted that since 2001 the United States has seen its debt-to-GDP ratio double to 66 percent and that it may well be headed toward the danger zone of 100 percent. "This is a completely unsustainable fiscal policy," said Ferguson. "Pretty soon the U.S. will be spending more on debt service than national security. ... That's a tipping point for any global power."
Americans "just have to go down in their living standards" after years in which their living standards soared in part based on foreign credit which is no longer there," said University of Munich economics professor Hans-Werner Sinn. Jacob Frenkel, Chairman of JP Morgan Chase International, urged the United States to rein in entitlements as part of a "political deal" that recognizes reality.
Chairing a panel, CNBC anchor Maria Bartiromo drew laughs by challenging the scowling Roubini to come up with "any good news."
He offered that "emerging economies have high potential growth."
But even that comes with a caveat: Roubini warned that world growth leader China was too dependent on exports to the struggling West and predicted that within a year its economic growth will be overtaken by India, a huge nation much more reliant on its domestic market for development.
The leading Chinese delegate to the forum, Cheng Siwei, seemed to agree with the criticism. "We must change our investment pattern from investment driven to relying more on domestic consumption," said Cheng, a former top Chinese official who chairs the China Soft-Science Research Society among other positions.
What about Greece, whose near-default four months ago rattled the nerves of investors around the globe?
"Greece will not make it," said Sinn. He said the world can either subsidize Athens indefinitely, force a degree of austerity that actually risks "civil war," or — in what he suggested was the least bad option — encourage Greece to restore its drachma currency despite the domestic banking collapse that could well result.
Sinn noted that bond spreads — the difference between the cost of borrowing for troubled countries such as Greece and solid ones such as Germany — have swiftly returned to the startling levels that preceded the Greek bailout in May.
Truman ended his remarks on a high note, noting that in recent quarters' "U.S. productivity increase has been significant." In the second recent quarter, productivity dropped 1.8 percent.
But higher productivity, while good for companies' bottom lines, is also a reflection of the stagnant labor market and the shrinkage of payrolls as firms hope to produce as much as before with fewer and more productive staff.
In perhaps an illustration of that psychology, several hundred business leaders at the forum were asked for their projections on their own companies' prospects. Voting electronically, some 70 percent predicted a rise in turnover by the end of 2010 and almost half predicted a rise in their firms' investment.
But less than a third saw a chance for new hiring; almost half saw no change — and about a quarter predicted even more reductions.
Copyright © 2010 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.Questions or CommentsPrivacy PolicyAbout Our AdsTerms of ServiceCopyright/IP Policy
(three articles)
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... rse/62505/
Is the U.S. Economy So Bad It Can't Get Much Worse?
By Daniel Indiviglio
New and existing home sales are at drastic lows. Consumer sentiment is extremely weak. Auto sales in August hit a floor not seen in decades. The unemployment rate remains close to double-digits. It's easy to go on and on about some of the grim features of the current U.S. economy. In fact, things are so awful that you could ask: are things so bad already that they can't get much worse?
This claim was made by a Bank of America economist in a Bloomberg article on Thursday. It says:
The sectors of the economy that traditionally drive it into recession are already so depressed it's difficult to see them getting a lot worse, said Ethan Harris, head of developed markets economics research at BofA Merrill Lynch Global Research in New York. Inventories are near record lows in proportion to sales, residential construction is less than half the level of the housing boom and vehicle sales are more than 30 percent below five years ago.
His point is well-taken. Some of these figures are already so brutally low that it's hard to imagine that they could sink much further. And if the economy keeps even its current sluggish pace, then the U.S. won't double dip -- it will just endure a painfully slow recovery. But is Harris right -- are things so bad that it's actually unrealistic to imagine they could get much worse?
One way to determine this would be to look at sales data. But that's not enough. There are lots of moving variables that can affect sales like population, wages, taxes, etc. So let's look at the ratio of personal consumption expenditures to personal disposable income. That should provide a good measure of how willing consumers are to spend. The ratio serves as a sort of economic comfort indicator based on the amount of the money people have they can and are spending. If the ratio is already at a very low level historically, then the thesis above is correct, and it would be very unlikely to see it fall much further.
This is a trailing three-month average of the ratio, which helps get rid of some of the noise. As you can see, consumption spending-to-disposable income has fallen recently, but still stands at 0.907 -- well above its 2009 low of 0.894. That variance might not seem like a lot, but it's a difference of $130 billion in annual spending.
So how big a change is that in terms of the entire U.S. economy? Let's imagine that consumer confidence fell further and drove spending to match that 2009 ratio low, with everything else remaining constant since the end of the second quarter. That $130 billion decline in spending would bring down GDP by 0.9%.
You may notice from the chart that there's an even deeper low that was hit in 1992, when the ratio was at 0.892. If spending dropped to that point, GDP would decline by $155 billion and GDP would drop 1.1%. Certainly, such outcomes are clearly within the realm of possibility, if consumers felt renewed uneasiness about the economy.
And what happens if GDP declines due to consumption? Businesses would sense weaker demand and would respond with additional layoffs. That would then reduce GDP even further. The dominos could continue to fall after that, pushing consumer confidence down even more.
Of course, if such a negative GDP move persisted for a few quarters, then the dreaded double dip would be upon us. So things aren't so bad that a double dip is out of the question. But even if the U.S. did double dip, considering how weak the economy is already, the dip would probably be a relatively shallow one, compared to the deep GDP declines we saw in late 2008 through early 2009.
This article available online at:
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... rse/62505/
Copyright © 2010 by The Atlantic Monthly Group. All Rights Reserved.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... omy/62445/
5 Doomsday Scenarios for the U.S. Economy
By Derek Thompson
By Derek Thompson and Daniel Indiviglio
It's been a brutal summer for the economy. The housing sector, like a balloon batted in the air one last time by the government credit, resumed its inevitable fall. Economic growth slowed to a lead-footed 1.6 percent, and job growth is even more anemic. Meanwhile, consumers are cranky, the trade gap is gaping.
Most signs point to a slow and steady recovery, but what if the pessimists are right, again? What if the United States isn't in the slow-lane to recovery, but rather on the precipice of another decline -- a double dip?
To see where this re-recession might begin, my colleague Dan Indiviglio and I imagined five financial earthquakes, each with a single epicenter: housing, consumers, toxic assets, Europe, and the debt. The following five scenarios are listed in order of likelihood.
1. Housing's Mini-Bubble Pops
Perhaps nothing poses as a big of a concern to the U.S. economy as its housing market. It's unclear how the government's efforts to stabilize the market through a buyer credit, ultra-low mortgage rates, and mortgage modification programs will pan out. Did it just create another mini-bubble that's beginning to pop now that the support has been withdrawn?
Here's the scenario. Weak home sales and continuing foreclosures result in climbing real estate inventory. This has two effects. First, it makes new homes even less attractive which further reduces construction jobs. Second, it puts downward pressure on home prices, which makes it harder for struggling homeowners to sell their home to avoid foreclosure and also keeps strategic default rates high, exacerbating the problem. Lower home values encourage Americans to save more and spend less, since their wealth is effectively reduced. The Dow drops and credit markets tighten even further, suffocating private investment just as homeowners bunker down and slash spending. Growth turns negative.
2. You Break the Economy
You, the American consumer, are reloading savings after a debt-fueled decade. But as any general will tell you, when an entire squad reloads at once, it leaves everybody vulnerable. It's the same with the economy.
Here's the scenario. Consumer sentiment continues to fall slowly, and spending turns negative again. Small businesses hold off to replenish their inventories or add new workers. Wages and hours freeze, and unemployment takes a leap toward 10 percent in October. Congress is paralyzed, because it's only weeks away from the mid-terms. The stock market sees business revenue trending flat, joblessness rising and Congress doing nothing, and it sparks a 300-point sell-off. Americans frightful for their savings cut back spending even more the next month, and overall growth turns negative.
3. Toxic Assets Return
If you closely followed the bank bailout, then you know it wasn't originally billed as simply throwing money at the banks. Instead, the Treasury intended to purchase the toxic assets from banks, which were the source of investors' uncertainty concerning bank stability. But the Treasury couldn't figure out a way to do this quickly enough to make it effective. As a result, the banks were largely stuck with these bad assets. We just don't know how bad, yet.
Here's the scenario. The residential real estate market's problems continue. Even once foreclosures begin to decline, we see waves of defaults, as modification program participants re-default at rates of 30% to 50%. Commercial mortgage-backed securities continue to deteriorate, as some businesses struggle with weak consumer demand. Home and commercial real estate values keep declining, and so do the value of the assets that back them. Banks with exposure to these toxic securities see another round of losses, and investors question their stability. The market plummets, credit freezes, and growth turns negative.
4. Europe Falls Apart
Europe seems to have avoided an all-out collapse of confidence in its ability to pay back its debt. But things can change, and fast fast. Indeed, the Greek debt crisis went from ignorable wire stories to front page news in a matter of days.
Here's the scenario. Slow growth in weak Eurozone states like Greece, Spain, and Italy turns negative and spooks investors, who demand higher returns on government debt. Europe's bond rates spike. Countries announce further austerity -- tax increases and spending cuts -- which strangles our biggest export market. The EU central bank responds by announcing a plan to write down troubled debt, which dings some Americans banks.
In a flight to quality debt, the dollar appreciates. This hurts our exports even more. As the trade deficit gapes open and manufacturing's good run dead ends, the stock market plummets, taking household wealth down with it. Families looking to restore balance sheets cut back on spending, and the American producer loses the American consumer and the European buyer. Growth turns negative.
5. Debt Finally Catches Up To Us
Interest rates on U.S. debt are low today for one big reason. Investors trust the United States, at least more than they trust other countries. If the people giving us money suddenly have as little faith in America as Americans, that could change, and quickly.
Here's the scenario. The IMF recently said the United States has a 25 percent chance of seeing dramatically higher interest rates in the near future. But the bond market can strike without warning, as it did in Europe earlier this year. If uncertainty with our political process gets reflected in our interest rate, we'll have a harder time affording debt, 55% of which has to be rolled over in the next three years. Pension and mutual funds with government debt would be written down, causing Americans to save even more of their paychecks. We'd be left with two bad choices: tax cuts to juice consumption or tax hikes to please our lenders. But at that point, it would be too late to avoid a double dip.
Photo credits from top: kworth30 (Flickr); Wikipedia; Wikipedia; Wikipedia; infrogmation (Flickr)
This article available online at:
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... omy/62445/
Copyright © 2010 by The Atlantic Monthly Group. All Rights Reserved.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100903/ap_ ... _recession
Experts see trouble ahead for developed world
By DAN PERRY, Associated Press Writer
Fri Sep 3, 1:37 pm ET
CERNOBBIO, Italy – Is the global economy out of the woods? Two years after near-meltdown, with the U.S. looking sluggish, equity markets groggy and Europeans fighting a debt crisis, experts gathered in Italy offered a generally gloomy outlook — especially for the United States and much of the industrialized world.
The doomsayers were led by New York University economist Nouriel Roubini, who warned in booming tones that "there is a significant risk of a double-dip recession in the United States" as well as in Japan and many European countries.
Some of the assembled experts and leaders at the annual Ambrosetti Forum on the shores of Lake Como were somewhat more upbeat: economist Edwin Truman, a senior fellow of the Peterson Institute for International Economics, predicted that "the most likely global outlook is subpar growth."
But most appeared to agree on a sobering array of basic problems standing in the way of true recovery:
• Many of the growth drivers in place since the collapse of Lehman Brothers are winding up or have ended, including not only the massive stimulus spending but tax breaks, schemes such as the "cash for clunkers" program and — for some countries like Russia — high commodity prices.
• The stimulus deemed necessary to jump-start moribund economies soon causes deficits and debt, upsetting the markets enough to spur austerity — which undermines growth.
• Most of the world's growth stems from a developing world led by China — which is so dependent on exports that it needs the West to continue to buy, and so will suffer if recovery in the rich world proves short-lived.
• Europe continues to lose competitiveness partly because of the euro, which — for all the fretting over its dip earlier this year at the height of the Greek debt crisis — remains high in purchasing price parity terms versus the U.S. dollar.
• The sector that is widely seen as the spark of the global recession — U.S. real estate — has not recovered, with house-buying flat and the mortgage market, with its related financial instruments, essentially still in ruins.
• The jobs picture is not improving and in parts of the developed world — such as Spain, with some 20 percent unemployment — it is disastrous.
The warnings come amid mixed news on indicators. The European Central Bank raised its growth projections Thursday and its president, Jean-Claude Trichet, said recession was "not in the cards." But the bank said the situation remained uncertain and that it would keep measures to supply banks with additional credit in place until the end of the year.
The U.S. unemployment rate rose in August for the first time in four months as hiring by private employers proved insufficient to keep pace with a large increase in the number of people looking for work. The Labor Department said Friday that companies did add a net total 67,000 new jobs last month, down from July's upwardly revised total of 107,000.
But more than a half-million Americans resumed their job searches, which drove up the jobless rate to 9.6 percent from 9.5 percent in July — a figure above the rate in Britain and Germany.
"I see a very weak labor market," said Roubini, who gained celebrity for predicting the global collapse of 2008 when others were still celebrating the boom times. He noted noting unemployment is close to 10 percent and almost 17 percent when including discouraged workers or partially employed ones.
He puts the chance of recession at 40 percent or more — a position he has staked in recent weeks — and said even weak growth would still feel like a recession.
"The U.S. has to create 150,000 every month in the private sector just to stabilize the rate and prevent it from rising," he said. "We'd have to create 300,000 jobs every month for the next three years just to bring back the level of employment to before this recession started," Roubini said.
"Nobody ... believes the U.S. is going to create any time any amount of jobs like that," he said.
And even that wouldn't be enough when taking into account the young people entering the labor market, he said.
Harvard University historian Niall Ferguson noted that since 2001 the United States has seen its debt-to-GDP ratio double to 66 percent and that it may well be headed toward the danger zone of 100 percent. "This is a completely unsustainable fiscal policy," said Ferguson. "Pretty soon the U.S. will be spending more on debt service than national security. ... That's a tipping point for any global power."
Americans "just have to go down in their living standards" after years in which their living standards soared in part based on foreign credit which is no longer there," said University of Munich economics professor Hans-Werner Sinn. Jacob Frenkel, Chairman of JP Morgan Chase International, urged the United States to rein in entitlements as part of a "political deal" that recognizes reality.
Chairing a panel, CNBC anchor Maria Bartiromo drew laughs by challenging the scowling Roubini to come up with "any good news."
He offered that "emerging economies have high potential growth."
But even that comes with a caveat: Roubini warned that world growth leader China was too dependent on exports to the struggling West and predicted that within a year its economic growth will be overtaken by India, a huge nation much more reliant on its domestic market for development.
The leading Chinese delegate to the forum, Cheng Siwei, seemed to agree with the criticism. "We must change our investment pattern from investment driven to relying more on domestic consumption," said Cheng, a former top Chinese official who chairs the China Soft-Science Research Society among other positions.
What about Greece, whose near-default four months ago rattled the nerves of investors around the globe?
"Greece will not make it," said Sinn. He said the world can either subsidize Athens indefinitely, force a degree of austerity that actually risks "civil war," or — in what he suggested was the least bad option — encourage Greece to restore its drachma currency despite the domestic banking collapse that could well result.
Sinn noted that bond spreads — the difference between the cost of borrowing for troubled countries such as Greece and solid ones such as Germany — have swiftly returned to the startling levels that preceded the Greek bailout in May.
Truman ended his remarks on a high note, noting that in recent quarters' "U.S. productivity increase has been significant." In the second recent quarter, productivity dropped 1.8 percent.
But higher productivity, while good for companies' bottom lines, is also a reflection of the stagnant labor market and the shrinkage of payrolls as firms hope to produce as much as before with fewer and more productive staff.
In perhaps an illustration of that psychology, several hundred business leaders at the forum were asked for their projections on their own companies' prospects. Voting electronically, some 70 percent predicted a rise in turnover by the end of 2010 and almost half predicted a rise in their firms' investment.
But less than a third saw a chance for new hiring; almost half saw no change — and about a quarter predicted even more reductions.
Copyright © 2010 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.Questions or CommentsPrivacy PolicyAbout Our AdsTerms of ServiceCopyright/IP Policy