ADN

I am reading a paper here written by a southern minister...He starts his paper telling a story of a young man trying to change his gay lifestyle...He said that the young man goes on to tell him that he is unhappy with being gay, and they spend a period of time trying to conform him...It is unsuccesful, and prompted the Pastor to start research...

Aside from genetic componets of homosexuality being inconclusive, he turned to the bible...

Does the bible offer up any scripture (use examples) that outright says Homosexuality is wrong..?

the fake laws of moses include it beign a sin, and perhaps for good reason. but never in the words of God is man laying with another man a sin. (ick!)

woman, hoewever, may not lay with her mom, grandmother, or aunt. Aparently twins and cousins is on the book with The Man, so I'ma be O-Tay.

god NEVER condemns anoyone for a sexual act except Onan, who will not marry when he is commanded to marry a girl he wants to.

He tells god he'd rather jerkoff than get with this bish, and proceeds to, and as his seed hits the ground, god stirkes him dead. The moral of the story is not masturbation is worng, its don't jerk around when God tells you to do something. /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

Also, the story of Onan first showed up in India, and made a lot more sense. It was a love poem in whih a man will not marry according to his status and wants to remain celibate. when his family makes him marry, he jerks off in front of them all and is killed by the Devas mercifully.

but the Jews didn't like the idea of a merciful God.

vertical,
raum

not everything in the Bible

The Bible does talk about sexual immorality and how wrong that is. Personally I consider homosexuality immoral but I don't know of any reference directly to gays

As I understand it is not specific about homosexuality, but about lust. Although sexual intercourse is supposed to be pleasurable and we are supposed to enjoy it, its object is still reproduction. Therefore having sex just out of lust (since reproduction is obviously impossible between homosexuals) is in such view wrong.

Moving right along, the minister did come up with a few scriptures commonly used to condemn homosexuality:

Genesis 19:1-29

Judges 19-21

Deuteronomy 23:17-18

I Corinthians 6:9

I Timothy 1:10

Here is a kicker scripture, it comes from Leviticus 18:22:

QUOTE(The Bible)You (masculine) shall not lie with male as with a woman, it is an abomination.\"

and Leviticus 20:13

QUOTE(The Bible)If a man lies with a male as with a woman both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Concrete..?

Good point, bd.

A, those are pretty black and white verses, hard to argue with 'em..

I officially pronounce homosexuality wrong.

(Until raum reveals why I am totally wrong /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />)

lol...that's the spirit!

I didn't know about those verses but they do show how homosexuality is wrong

I just recently saw Alexander... OMG. what crap.

What pisses me off most, is they play this whole Alexander's wife Roxane was jealous of Hephastion. Meanwhile, Hephastion, called Philalexandros, is only seen on the battlefield rubbing his nipples laying on the ground crying like a bitch everytime they are in battle. This for one of the burn pile. Hephastion was one of the prime Logistics officers of Alexandros and responsible for huge military movements.

And Hephastion was not poisoned. Hephaistion was sick. He died. He had fallen ill in battle. That happened a lot. No, no one knows exactly what he died of. Maybe typhoid, maybe malaria. As for the poison theory at a highly suspicious court, if Alexander didn't believe Hephaistion was poisoned and turn out the dogs after the murderer of his closest friend, then I don't think we should assume it, either. Alexander supposedly had the doctor hanged. But that was for telling him he would be fine and just suffered a fever. Hephaistion died of a fever, Alexander did not try and kill himself, nor his wife Roxane that he loved truly, and took as his wife upon their introduction.

Alexander did not go crazy with grief. He reacted just like most people who lose a "honorary" family member would want to. He just had more ability, being the King of the known world to have those wishes and remeberances obeyed. Alexander's actions were pretty normal, and he was starting to come out of his grief around the time of his own death, eight months later in Babylon... not almost immediately in the movie, that tries to make some Romeo and Juliet scene of the whole thing.

He and alexander had likely experienced a sexual relationship at some time, but they were not "gay", and certainly not effiminate. Greeks had a completely different idea of sex, and what it meant. Sex was a vulgar demonstration of power, and could be used to affirm the power you had over someone. The gender or the age of the person was not significant.

Sex was about power and social position, and it was Alexander's right to @#$% anyone of lesser social status than he, the Greatest of Alexanders. So, basically, it was his right to @#$% the world.

The difference between a sexual experience that was approved or not, was if the sexual experience reinforced or defied the standing and social status of the participants. It was literally a matter of "if the more powerful man was on top." If you was a queeny, and took a inferior role, it was disapproved. Otherwise, anybody below you was free game.

Among some philosophical groups, love between two men was considered superior because, of course, men were superior to women. Thus, sex or love with a woman would always be inferior, in this logic. But Ptolemy was not of this philosophy, and it was never part of the teachings given to Alexander and his childhood friend Hephastion.

But the men didn't have an *equal* relationship, even in childhood. For example, so they were set against each other to wrestle and Hephastion won. Well, Alexander says "Congratulations Hephastion, but just to show you I am still the King's son, you gonna get it in the @#$%, so bend over and get these whippins." The hope was that through this "breaking," the king would absorb that which had allowed his enemy to beat him, and make him a better king in the long run... of a sore-assed people who respected the fact he could @#$% them raw if they disobeyed him.

By our modern understanding, this is unacceptable. Thank God, or as a moderator at ADN, I'd have break off Fapper something fierce! And Ty would make sure LG would need surgery :twisted:

One person was always higher on the social food chain. That doesn't mean they couldn't genuinely love and care for one another. In fact, exactly the opposite. It affirms that the ancient Greeks worked on different assumptions about what sex and love were. The ideas of Marriage for Love originated in the 1700's, and are not yet three hundred years old. Homo-Erotic sex was a sport of power in Ancient Greece, that you played with your *best* friends. :yuk:

Alexander called Hephaistion "philalexandros" Alexander's friend and that was what mattered to them most, not that they could steal away to the sahdows and swap spit and give each other perms. In closing, it is unlikely that Hephastion ever got to "fill alexandros" even if he did "feel alexandros."

I gotta got puke now. /sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />

vertical,
raum

/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

lol...that is awesome A