ADN

Well...

L.G...Here you go...That "fair shake" shit you like to talk about...How you feel you have it hard, and things are stacked up againt you, in favor of minorities...Your thoughts..? Wanna break this on down for me..?

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/st ... ock/051101

It's a matter of opinion...

Notre Dame never wanted Willingham in the first place..... Weis gives them a face...and the type of representation they want. I agree it's unfair, but I think it has to do with the fact they like Weis better than Willingham. I'd rather play with people I love and lose...then people I don't like and win.

But, let's talk about it then. This is considered a race issue...only because its happening to the black man.

Care to discuss how there are 3 new rookie BLACK coaches in the NBA this year?

Never coached on any level before....and you're telling me that wasn't a race move to even out the coaches?


You've only further proved my point actually.....by turning this into a race issue. If Willingham was white...this discussion wouldn't even be takin place......who cares they gave an extension to a coach who did worse statistically....but because it happened against a black person...it's gotta turn into a huge media uproar about how the black man is being opressed by the white people once again.

Weis has a great reputation, and brought them such positive media attention with the whole "pass right" situation...why not offer him an extension.


In fact, I recall thinking that they hired Willingham back in the day..only because he was black, and they never really wanted him as their coach.. I think he got a bad deal, and got kicked out too soon, but that the way Notre Dame saw it....and I'm sure it went deeper than skin color.


The ignorancy is exactly what I'm talking about....every issue turns into a race issue, and uses race as an excuse.

Willingham could have been a prick and pissed on the Admin's daughter.....but he was fired solely on the fact that he was black...and thats the way its always gonna be twisted no matter what really happened.

Sir, this is not a matter of opinion...School is open...

QUOTE(Lost Ghost)Notre Dame never wanted Willingham in the first place..... Weis gives them a face...and the type of representation they want. I agree it's unfair, but I think it has to do with the fact they like Weis better than Willingham. I'd rather play with people I love and lose...then people I don't like and win.

There was no pressure to hire Willingham Sir...Unless you want to count the fact that damn near the whole school went ape shit because the mascot (A fictional leprechaun) was black for the first time in history...We are talking Indiana L.G., which led the nation in racially motivated church burnings not too long ago...Don't be so quick to think that every issue isn't about race simply because it seems like the easy way out, that would be being nieve...The leprechaun incident was all in the media, someobody had to break down and tell them folks that leprechauns weren't real, truly...Kanye West talking shit about Dubs in the midst of the hurricane, was bullshit...This, has merit...

QUOTE(Lost Ghost)Care to discuss how there are 3 new rookie BLACK coaches in the NBA this year?

Sir, 80% of the league is minority, if not more...I bet you that percentage of total coaches in the NBA that are minorities is not close to being that high...As far as I'm concerned, its about time...Also, if those new coaches (I haven't heard the news, so I don't know) have never played in the NBA, that will be a first...Many players that played far into the twilight of their careers go on to be coaches, no experience necessary...Danny Ainge, Larry Bird, and Nate McMillian come to mind...

QUOTE(Lost Ghost)You've only further proved my point actually.....by turning this into a race issue. If Willingham was white...this discussion wouldn't even be takin place......who cares they gave an extension to a coach who did worse statistically....but because it happened against a black person...it's gotta turn into a huge media uproar about how the black man is being opressed by the white people once again.

I'm not sure what your point is...You said, ".who cares they gave an extension to a coach who did worse statistically...."

And if that makes sense to you, no need for me to keep pushing the envelope...The incident is unprecedented Sir, this is why it is news...Ty Willingham was fired, and fled Indiana for his safety...It's not about oppression, the man is working again...Nobody is tripping on that...Damn, did you even read the article..? Tell me why you think that they fired Willingham then...

Give me one good reason why they fired him...One...Cause it wasn't his record...Wasn't his recruiting...Wasn't his relationship to the players...Now, if you got another idea about coach evaluation, lay it on me...

Wasn't his recruiting? It wasn't coincidence that he had the best record of his tenure there when he was coaching players he didn't recruit. He went on to get statistically worse....which was when he start recruiting players.

How do you know his relationship with the players?



Yadda yadda....this all isn't my point.


Man, I think Willingham got fired because he was black...and I was pissed about it......

But why we gotta bring that up again...with Weis? They love Weis as a coach and a person...and if they wanna give him an extension.....who the fuck cares man? Are they spending your money? No?

We can play statistics all day with this shit....Willingham got fired because he was black.... Weis isn't getting an extension because he is white....so why is race being brought up?


I mean seriously....that's my beef with this hwole thing. Weis gets an extension...and people are crying racism? The fuck Willingham have to do with Weis getting an extension in the first place?

The article should have shed some light on that for you...Weiss shouldn't even have the damn Notre Dame job, let alone be gettin' an extension...For what..? He hasn't done JACK shit Lost Ghost...Nothing...Now you tell me how that's not an unearned privledge...And then you come right out and tell me you feel that this is a a rare occasion...Kid, this shit happens ALL the time...America still has the audacity to allow these things...

WAKE UP MAN...

Notre Dame is the face of college football...They have a lucrative ass contract with NBC to air their first game of the season...And they didn't give a SHIT about running off the black leprechaun and the coach right behind it...So, if Willingham had a better first season, and everbody was like good job, but no extension, tell me...In plain English so that I can understand...

What reason is there for Weiss to have the extension..?

Willingham did better against better competition...End of story...Weiss does "pass right" and gets 10 million..? Are you fucking serious Son..? C'mon now...He...Has...Not...Done...Shit...The teams Notre Dame have beaten have a combined loosing record...He has not recruited one single person on that team...And he is running a west coast offense Ty Willingham put into place...But...Pass right, and we got 10 million...And you keep saying "if he had been black," when the point is, if he was black, that shit wouldn't have happened...Cause he WAS black, and it didn't...But, again, you might not be able to understand that little aspect...

And lets be clear, we aren't so much talking blatant racism...It should be said as it is...Notre Dame wants black players, but not black coaches...That is the universities call, and they should get all the negative publicity they deserve for not stepping up to the plate...

I read somewhere that Notre Dame had the 3rd best recruiting, getting a ton of talent from high school for next year.

I've always been a Notre Dame fan so it's good to see people scared of my team again.

Oh shut the fuck up about Weis not doing shit...... His team came within a yard of beating a team that has been unstoppable for 3 years. Notre Dame hasn't been the face of college football in a while. You can't be the face if you aren't ranked my man.


And stop talking condescending to me like I dont know shit...

America has the audcity to let what happen? Play favorites and keep the people they like around them? Uh....shit, what a horrible concept...

This is a move for the future....now that Weis is running the show...j dog is right, they are going to have better recruiting...from the inseason recruits alone they have more talent than Willingham put there...and they feel that Weis is the guy they want leading this team.

My hypothethics is to prove how stupid the big deal that is being made over this is. If Weis was black, and Willingham was white...not only would this not be an issue, but it would be praised. Weis coached on the professional level...that is something that Willingham never did. Weis has brought postive attention to their program....for things not accomplished on the football field....Willingham didnt. Willingham's best season was playing with players he never recruited...whereas Weis's reign is only starting, and I gaurntee this team will be the team to be in the coming years....and you can hold me to that statement.

And 10 years from now....when the extension is over...and Notre Dame is ranked number 1 in the preseaon after winning 2-3 championships in that tenure....people won't have shit to say but "wow...what a great job they did giving Weis that extension"


A black leprechaun? that just doesn't make sense. I don't hate black people...I just think in every single portrayal...the leprechaun has been white....whats wrong with them wanting it to be like it always has?

Against better compeition? Based on what? I honestly can say I don't know who they played then....and don't even know off-hand who ND played this year....but unless you can prove statistically that they played harder teams...stfu.

And yes....you loved Weis for "pass right" but now that it contridicts the move they made against the black man.....that didn't mean shit..and Charlie Weis needs to go to hell.

Stepping up to the plate in what aspect? They hired a black coach...didn't like him and fired him.. in fact..."they want black players" is just as racist as "but not black coaches"

You're basically saying "white people have no talent for playing......but why the fuck can't we have more black coaches"

It doesn't please enough that what...80% of the starters in all of college football are black....no one is crying racisim there....but if its 80% of the coaches are white...then its a crime.









Fact of the matter is...and the only reason I stepped in on this is.......... Charlie Weis getting an extension has NOTHING to do with Willingham being black....Willingham is fucking GONE...this is a whole different issue.


Let's make it personal.....My friend Brain Jefferson...he's black, and he works with me (Actually he found a better job and last night was his last day on the job)

He's been there longer than me...and frankly..is a better worker than me. But, I make more money than he does, because I stepped up and took responsibility when my manager left the store...I handle and am responilbe for the money...I'm very outgoing and interact with all the customers...and I'm not afraid to talk to the owner about my salary.

Now....did I get a raise because Brain is black and my owner is racist? No, I got a raise becuase I'm responible, and responibility comes with a little bit more money, also I make the customers feel comfortable and at home when they come in the store. Brain is faster at making sandwiches, cleans quicker, but I'm the one who makes customers want to come back. Who you would value more is your opinion......but its not a race issue, it's a value issue. You want good workers...or do you want socialable people? You want coaches who can call the best play...or you want a coach who can call a very good play....get positive media attention....and get the best recruiting the school has had in years??

That's the question......it's not....you want the black guy or the white guy?

QUOTE(Lost Ghost)Oh shut the fuck up about Weis not doing shit...... His team came within a yard of beating a team that has been unstoppable for 3 years. Notre Dame hasn't been the face of college football in a while. You can't be the face if you aren't ranked my man.

I love it that you think it makes sense to come close to beating the #1 team...USC is hardly unstoppable, they have played second half football damn near all season, and were outplayed every way last year against Cal, and came within a QB setting a record 26 straight completions only to have his last two endzone passed dropped...Close means shit...Be happy with your team and their moral victories...You have nothing to say...Also, name another college program with an exclusive contract to air their games...Win or loose, I bet you that ND is gettin' that cash...That deal is unique in all of college football...Notre Dame is one of the most storied, and traditional programs in the nation...

QUOTE(Lost Ghost)And stop talking condescending to me like I dont know shit...

Heh...If you were reading somebody spewing off the same garbage you are about moral victories and such, you'd be saying the same thing...You and I both know you better than that, take that bullshit somewhere else...If we remove the black and white, and simply look at the facts, theres no way in the world you could have a single reason to justify the extension...Answer the question posed int he article, which I don't think you have done yet...

Why Weis, and not Willingham...

Can you..?!?!!?

Coach A comes in and wins 8 games in a row...All but two of the teams played went to bowl games...Notable, consistent national contender Florida State is in this group...

Coach B comes in...Has not beaten a single team they weren't supposed to beat, and has lost two games...Notable, lost to USC, albeit a close game...Oh, and the wonderfully designed pass right...

QUOTE(Lost Ghost)America has the audcity to let what happen? Play favorites and keep the people they like around them? Uh....shit, what a horrible concept...

It's called, \"The Good Ole Boy\" System, and yes it exists and is moving strong...I've seen it happen first hand, with my own eyes...That's not something I would make up for a point in a debate, I can assure you...

QUOTE(Lost Ghost)If Weis was black, and Willingham was white...not only would this not be an issue, but it would be praised.

Hey genius, this is the fucking point...IT DIDN'T HAPPEN..!!! You keep missing this, and this is like the second time you've said that...They had a coach with a BETTER record, against BETTER competition, and ran him the fuck outta town..! There is no need to speak hypothetically, THIS IS THE CASE, and what this post was about...

QUOTE(Lost Ghost)Weis coached on the professional level...that is something that Willingham never did. Weis has brought postive attention to their program....for things not accomplished on the football field....Willingham didnt. Willingham's best season was playing with players he never recruited...whereas Weis's reign is only starting, and I gaurntee this team will be the team to be in the coming years....and you can hold me to that statement.

Heh...

QUOTE(Willingham's Bio)In his inaugural season with the Irish in 2002, he wasted no time reversing the tide of the Irish program, leading Notre Dame to a 10-2 regular-season record and a trip to the 2003 Gator Bowl in Jacksonville, Fla.

In the process, Willingham became the only first-year coach in Notre Dame history to win 10 games in his initial campaign. He was recognized for his efforts when he was named the ESPN/Home Depot College Coach of the Year, the Scripps College Coach of the Year, the Black Coaches Association Male Coach of the Year and the George Munger Award College Coach of the Year by the Maxwell Football Club. Willingham also made history when he became the first college football coach to earn The Sporting News Sportsman of the Year award in 2002.

Enough of the huffy talk about Willingham's character, the class he brought in compared to the class Davie had is utter bullshit...Brady Quinn is the most talented QB in the country...You don't get that by not being good...It is good measure to give a coach 5 years to build a program...Willingham not only didn't get his 5 years, he got the boot with a winning record...Read Willinghams bio and see how his teams were in the top 5 in the nation at graduating student athletes...

As for your reference to pro football, Pete Carroll was an NFL coach, and fucking sucked at it...Yet, USC is about to win another championship...Weiss was an offensive coordinator...None of that matters in the college game...

QUOTE(Lost Ghost)A black leprechaun? that just doesn't make sense. I don't hate black people...I just think in every single portrayal...the leprechaun has been white....whats wrong with them wanting it to be like it always has?

Man, that's just ignorant, and I'm sorry you said that...Tell me a fucking leprechaun altogther makes fucking sense, and I'll run for the pot of gold the next time I see a damn rainbow...A LEPRECHAUN IS A FICTIONAL CHARACTER...THE FUCK difference does it make if it's black or white..?!?!? Way to think ideally...

QUOTE(Lost Ghost)Against better compeition? Based on what? I honestly can say I don't know who they played then....and don't even know off-hand who ND played this year....but unless you can prove statistically that they played harder teams...stfu.

In case you've forgotten, in 2002, Tyrone ran up an 8-0 record against Maryland, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State, Stanford, Pittsburgh, Air Force and Florida State. Six of those teams -- all but Stanford and Michigan State -- played in bowl games that year. The combined record, including bowl games, for those eight clubs was 60-43.

vs

Notre Dame has beaten a mediocre Michigan team, a Dave Wannstedt-coached Pittsburgh team that is .500 only because the Big East is terrible, the third- or fourth-best team in the Mountain West Conference (BYU), a bad Purdue squad, and a Washington club with one victory (vs. Idaho).

Please don't tell the CIA I told you this -- this information is classified top secret -- but the combined record of Weis' victims is 17-24.

That was in the article...I'll stop talking to you like you dont' know shit, when you talk like you do...Soooo...I guess an STFU is in order, but not for me...

omfg....i just typed like a million page report with stats and everything...and then it didnt go through..error message.........i fucking hate this, no one else post on this topic until I have a chance to repost...which wont be for a little whilebecause I'm so pissedd....

LMAO...

Before you retype the post...Just answer the question...

Why Weiss, and not Willingham..? Its simple...Provide a logical explanation why you, Lost Ghost, would give a 10 million dollar extention to coach Weiss, but not coach Willingham...We can argue statistics later, based on Willinghams first season, and Weiss' first season, what is the difference..!?!?!