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Army accepts more low-aptitude recruits
By Tom Bowman
Baltimore Sun

WASHINGTON †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢¬…¡‚¬¢‚¬¦¢¢¬…œ The Army met its recruiting goal for November by again accepting a high percentage of recruits who scored in the lowest category on the military†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢s aptitude tests, Pentagon officials said Thursday, raising renewed concerns that the quality of the all-volunteer force will suffer.

The Army exceeded its 5,600 recruit goal by 256 for November, while the Army Reserve brought in 1,454 recruits, exceeding its target by 112. To do so, they accepted a †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“double digit†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬? percentage of recruits who scored between 16 and 30 out of a possible 99 on the military†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢s aptitude test, said officials who requested anonymity.

Last month, the Baltimore Sun reported that the Army reached its recruiting goals in October by accepting 12 percent from these low scorers, known as Category IV recruits. The Army may accept no more than 4 percent annually, according to Defense Department rules. While officials last month disclosed the percentage accepted in October, Thursday they refused to reveal the November figure.

†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“We are not giving out (aptitude test) categories during the course of the year,†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬? said Douglas Smith, a spokesman for the Army Recruiting Command at Fort Knox, Ky.

Still, Army officials continue to say that at the end of the recruiting year, next Sept. 30, the total percentage of Category IV soldiers will be no more than 4 percent.

For more than a decade, the Army kept its Category IV soldiers to 2 percent of its recruitment pool.

But last year, faced with a difficult recruiting climate because of the war in Iraq, Army Secretary Francis Harvey decided to double the number of Category IV soldiers. (continues...)

From: http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/journalgaz ... 421901.htm

I have taken the ASVAB...

And not to brag, but I think I missed 2 questions...Total...And on those, I think that I might have gotten it right in my head, but been so disgusted with the test itself, I marked the wrong answer carlessly...

The US Army, had I chose to enlist, would have immediately put me in at the rank of Lieutenant with no prior ROTC service or none of that...1 good piece of ass and 2 flat feet later, I opted out for college and never looked back...

That said, this news frightens me........

Yea...I think I placed the same way on the ASVAB test. If I can do it pretty much anyone can. And people say that the terrorists aren't winning...

wel, you two got test taking down pat. but the military ain't about test taking.

for the record, they wanted to make me an officer, and I scored almost perfect.

prolly one of the reasons i was doomed to a horrible military fate...

but most of the best soldiers and sailors don't test well.

it's not about test taking... its about taking orders and delegating authority to achieve a mission.

and i think the standards are far too high for something which is one of the viable options for american youth..

shit, most countries have mandatory service for citizenry.

we pretend only the best can go, and complain about the restless and increasingly dangerous youth.

take the gangs, drop them in bdu's and drop them in iraq, and give em a paycheck and college money.

i would. that is their best chance to see the value of the life they have been given.

and then, if they act up, there is what is called "just meets in the field."..

better than making the american penal system their personal training grounds...

but in fact, if someone passed does not have a mentally debilitating condition, he can damn near become a damn general.

and if most of those kids who try to get in the military were let in, they wouldn't end up thuggin for rest of heir life. i saw so much of this in Oakland, it was sickening. a kid who was a perfect fit for mean-greens who couldn't pass a test based on an education system that was little more than a assembly line for minumum wage slaves. when he loses all hope of a place in society, its only a month or so before he starts slingin and bangin.

it's about time we realized that and stopped trying to standardize human ability with hypothetical tests based on an ineffective education system.

My point in saying what I said is that the test was painfully easy...Like 2 minutes to complete 50 basic math questions, like 6 +7...These were things that I knew without thinking....

If my score was above average, that's one thing...But damn, 16 out of 99..? Shit man, my God daughter could do that, and she is 5 years old...How can you understand the integrity of a mission and what you're doing if your cognition is that slow..? Man, in my eyes, these are people, that if they didn't have a shot at the military, they'd barely have jobs...And then, we go and stick a rifle in their hands..? Lay out a strategic assesment..?

plain and simple,.. You don't seem to understand the ASVAB. The ASVAB is a test to see how much you already know,.. not what you can learn or become. you do not "pass the ASVAB." You are classified by it. The problem is the test is used to define your military potential. It shows what aptitude you have naturally developed in your environment. The main issue with this is it assumes one of those aptitudes is written words, or that your environment allowed you to develop your aptitudes to a testing point. This is simply not true in most cases where a child can not graduate high school. This no more distinguishes you ability an knowledge than your high school report cards.

Even worse is the rule that a highschool dropout must score higher to be allowed in to keep these arbitrary percentages up.

60% of applicants with their GED (which are still, according to the military considered dropouts) can score high enough to pass the standards of a highschool graduate (30), which are 20% less than their own inflated standards (50).

Here's the numbers, as always:

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Army recruits must score at least 31 on the AFQT, with no more than ten percent per year being high school dropouts. GED holders must score a 50 percent or better to be eligible (although waivers are now possible).

Marine Corps recruits must score at least 32, with no more than five percent being high school dropouts. GED holders must score at least 50 on the AFQT (although waivers are now possible).

Navy recruits must score at least 31. Between five and ten percent per year can be high school dropouts, but they also must score a minimum of 50. Additionally, high school dropouts must be at least 19 years of age, and show a proven work history. Female applicants to the Navy must also score at least a 50, because of the limited availability of female accommodations on Navy vessels.
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The interesting this is the aptitude scores you are assigned by the ASVAB define your potential, but their are certain postions and assignments in the service that only require a 8, when the minimum allowed by the test standards for Service is about 30!

This is because of the priority given to those who have demonstrated a commitment of four years, which high school requires.

That means an applicant with their GED (Cat II) has to score 20% better on the test than a high school graduate (Cat I), and in general, a Cat IV (High school drop-out, without a GED) has to score at least thirty five percent better than a Cat I. They have to do this to basically prove they are not afraid of commitment. This is validated by obsolete retention studies done in the 1970's, when mass dishonorable discharges taxed the defense budget (because of hippie protests, and what-not) and military morale was at an all-time low as DRAFTEES were finding ways out of INVOLUNTARY SERVICE.

That stratified standard is what they waived; the demand for higher scores by people without valid education credentials. So, they allowed people in who didn't graduate highschool, or get their GED yet, but still tested as well as the minimum requirements or waived requirements of a high school graduate. You did understand that they just are holding the same standards for non-graduates or GED holders as graduates, right? How is this wrong?



vertical,
raum

So, you think it is logical, and highly probabable for example, that a student that makes a 14 on the ACT can go to Harvard, major in law, and graduate w/a 3.8..? Magna cum laude..?

QUOTE(raum)The ASVAB is a test to see how much you already know,.. not what you can learn or become. you do not \"pass the ASVAB.\"

This is not completely true...A test can be equally as much of a current measurement as a future one...A physical, or a mental one...Or else, why have them..? Why train..? You run an obstacle course to to determine or grade or measure your physical prowness...You jog 7 miles in gear in training, cause you might have to do that or better in battle...You don't see someone struggle to finish the obstacle course and then assume they will do alright otherwise...You wouldn't say, "The obstacle course isn't a measurement of physical ability no more than the stopwatch used to time it..."

How come a mental test is different..? You don't look at a lifetime D student and assume that he's going to soar into great grades...It might not measure their intelligence, but it does say something useful about them...Perhaps the scope of my problem w/this matter isn't clearly defined...

To do so, they accepted a †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“double digit†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬? percentage of recruits who scored between 16 and 30 out of a possible 99 on the military†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢s aptitude test, said officials who requested anonymity.

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Still, Army officials continue to say that at the end of the recruiting year, next Sept. 30, the total percentage of Category IV soldiers will be no more than 4 percent.

Ergo, they sending those people to die...Or did I read too much into that...?

they are not sending them out to die,.. damn man! they are saying most of them won't make it to their re-up without getting discharged or seperated... based on statistics from the fucking 60's!

The reason the test scores are so high for people who don't have diplomas is not because they are more expendable,.. but because they were most often discharged before their tour ended. Not good business sense at that time. This was seen as a way for people who were being DRAFTED to be WEEDED out so they could get the longest return on their investment.

Now, the article says they are allowing waiver approvals in the "double digits." They are just approving more waivers. It is likely to see if the idea that a high school education makes you more likely to fulfill your ENTIRE tour of duty.

Anothing thing you don't realize is the ASVAB is not the test that matters. Its the AFQT (Armed Forces Qualifying Test) which I am sure you did not take, if you are saying it is easy. This ain't the high school library version. There is no overall "ASVAB Score." When you hear someone saying "I got an 80 on my ASVAB," weho has been to bootcamp, they are talking about their AFQT (Armed Forces Qualifying Test) score, not an "overall" ASVAB Score. It's not harder, but much more important.

The AFQT is far more important than the ASVAB, which more than 100,000 kids take a year to help career counselors, and give statistics to compare enlisted versus general citizenry. The AFQT determines whether or not you can join the military, not the ASVAB. The AFQT score is not derived from all portions of the ASVAB. Indeed, the AFQT score is determined from only four areas: Word Knowledge (WK), Paragraph Comprehension (PC), Arithmetic Reasoning (AR), and Mathematics Knowledge (MK).. Affectionally called "wick, Pick, arithmatik, and mick." These are the four horseman of your military career.

The formula to derive the AFQT "raw Score" is 2VE (Vocational Education, a score derived from the ASVAB) + AR (Arithmetic Reasoning) + MK (Mathematics Knowledge). This is approximated on the ASVAB, but you do not take this test until boot cam, 2nd week. You fail, you get "ad-sep", or "administratively separated." this means a kid can fail their ASVAB, as a civilian, and still pass the Four horsemen, as a Serviceman, well enough, and have a enlisted career, but they never get a chance if they score 99 on their ASVAB and fail the four horsemen by 1 point.

They DO NOT WAIVE ANYTHING IN BOOTCAMP,and i saw people who bullshitted the ASVAB who got sepped when they couldn't read their maritime history assignments, and had not requested tutoring during 2-week. The fourhorsemen tell you if you have a military career,.. the ASVAB tells you what the start of that career can be, and if you will get a re-enlistment bonus.

This just means these people are getting into boot camp. That is the easy part,.. gettin out in a uniform is the hard part. You take written tests, youy have to memorize, you have to drill constantly on vsuall, spoken and written clues. You WILL NOT make it in boot camp if you can't prove that you can learn to read, write, and calculate while you get the shit kicked out of you.

I dare someone to go to boot and prove otherwise.

And a pentagon report released showed people nested in their tested aptitudes did not EXCEL in those fields, and people in position they didn't test into DID NOT fail exceptionally in their assignments. The biggest factor in success is commitment, and it is foolish to think a person who has no commitment to their highschool will have no commitment to their military career.

vertical,
raum

QUOTE(raum)it is foolish to think a person who has no commitment to their highschool will have no commitment to their military career.

I don't agree with that...It goes against everything that is my logical self...

I would not expect, and nor do I believe it to be likely or probable to a reasonable degree, for a borderline student/HS drop out to do a complete 180, and become a focused, dedicated, and committed individual...I mean, anything can happen, but c'mon...And especially not in the Army...I know three people that are directly close to me...1, my sister in law, is a Career Military woman...She is in the Air Force though...She is smart as a whip and got good grades in school...Everyone else I know that is close to me is in the Army, including my 1st cousin Benjamin (An Iraqi war veteran of Falujah), want the hell out of there...And he was a decent student...

But anyway, why do you think they lowered the test score requirements then..?

because they need to keep recruiting numbers up to preserve the defense spending which is under scrutiny these days, not long term or full duty commitments.


and they don't care if they retain all these people,.. in fact they don't want to. but they need to keep bases open. in truth, 60% of them will prolly not finish boot, but at least they will get the chance, and keep recruiting numbers consistent.

but the article fails to mention that criticism of the ASVAB requirements being startified has been under criticism since 1996.

probably because when it sounds like this approach is something they have well researched and developed over almost a decade, it doesn't sound nearly as desperate, huh? Well, I don't think it was meant to. I think this article, written bey a certified pentagon correspodent was misread for its content.

The issue for the stadards was not making it in, but making it through your full tour of duty. The Army is at the 92 percent mark on its active-duty year-end re-enlistment goal, and the Marine Corps and Air Force both reported solid re-enlistment rates in November, defense officials reported today. In the time when the ASVAB was developed, it was less than 60%, and most of those were the one who bothered to graduate highschool. THING IS: NO FACTOR SUCH AS HIGH SCHOOL EDUCATION HAS EMERGED OR IS KNOW TO EXIST AS A COMMON TRAIT FOR MODERN RE-ENLISTMENT TRENDS.

the people they waived in have demonstrated over a decade, by percentage, they have the same chance of making it full tour as someone who graduates... IF they make it all the way in.

this primary consideration of the ASVAB makes it obsolete for this purpose, as it filters recruits on a factor that is no longer a viable consideration.