ADN

Mmm yes, finally have a few moments to finally start a VU topic..

Ok, I recently read a book called What the Bleep do we know?! (www.whatthebleep.com) and it pointed out some interesting things.
Things like water particles forming into either perfect crystals or polluted formations based on thoughts associated with them in an experiment (love, joy created nice crystals; hate, killing...not so nice..). It seems some of these gurus are actually starting to be able to control Newtonian physics (slightly),
based on the theories of the quantum world. Quantum vs. Newtonian is basically like saying "I believe it, therefore it's true" vs. "It's true, therefore I believe it." For those who don't know, crazy shit happens in quantum physics. Electrons can go to A to B without going in between, things are not real (only probabilities) until they are measured, etc.

So, my questions are:

1) How far can we push quantum mechanics into the "real" world? In Matthew Jeshua says "If you have faith as small as a mustard seed you can say to the mountain, move from here to there, and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you." Now, this is an inspirational favorite amongst the church, but is it actually true?

2) Relating to #1....Bending spoons. Has this legitimately been done? Anyone know any good links/articles?

3) Is something true because you believe it, or do you believe it because it is true?

QUOTESo, my questions are:  

1) How far can we push quantum mechanics into the "real" world? In Matthew Jeshua says "If you have faith as small as a mustard seed you can say to the mountain, move from here to there, and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you." Now, this is an inspirational favorite amongst the church, but is it actually true?  


If that were true .. I'd have the power of flight and invisibility years ago.

QUOTE2) Relating to #1....Bending spoons. Has this legitimately been done? Anyone know any good links/articles?  


I personally don't know if it has been done legitimately .. I'll have to google it later.


QUOTE3) Is something true because you believe it, or do you believe it because it is true?

That is a matter of how you observe your own reality. I like to think it's the first one, but that's how I shape my reality.

EDIT: Raum would definately have a much better understanding of this than I would .. this is just my own opinion.

My only objection is to your first statement...The trick is, you aren't able (in terms of quantum thought) to fly and be invisible until you actually believe it. (think the building jumping scene in the Matrix where Neo falls because he doesn't believe) We can all pretend to believe that if we jump, we will actually fly, but how many of us actually do?

and therein lies the problem .. how do I ACTUALLY believe I can do that ... :study:

A lot of liquor, weed, and some hypnosis maybe?

Seriously though...what if we raised our kids up to believe this, manipulated their thoughts and such...HMMM...it would only take one person to do it..

The spoon-bending thing is just a realisation that your mind is insane (or controlled by something insane).

Your mind, sees the spoon as it is told- straight.

Realise that what you're mind is being told is not the fact, and you realise that it is YOUR mind that is crazy, reflected in the bent spoon.

The Bible is pretty much filled with metaphors- physical examples to help you realise things.

You don't actually move mountains, but that faith will help you achieve whatever you want.

People find it hard to believe in a "presence", so God is envisioned as a physical manifestation, or just a particular singular manifestation. They need to praise something.

QUOTE(kurgan2001)Raum would definately have a much better understanding of this than I would .. this is just my own opinion.


Don't let Raum's words be the be-all & end-all. Use it to further develop your own opinions, rather than just take what he says because of his reputation & authority.


Charles that's not a stab at you, my friend. I just don't want everyone to lap up everything you write, and abstain from their own thinking.

After all this is a 'university'.

Well .. quantum physics isn't really my strong suite. I had read about 3 or 4 books on it while I was in high school, but I've forgot most of it now, and I don't take Raum's words as the 'be-all and end-all' .. hence where I stated it was my own opinion, but there are a lot of people that have a better understanding of this subject than I. I should've been more general in my statement though.

Despite Neo's little exercies in the Matrix, we have known physical limitations...I believe flight is possible, but, you're not going to do it simply because you believe you can...There's no way you can flap your arms fast enough to achieve flight...

Granted, there are some circumstances when your mind will let go of limitations, and you'll be capable of some phenomenal feats...But those kinds of things are really rare, and are capped off by some really amazing conditions...

Your 3 question seems to me like a formula to achieve the same thing...I don't really see how the statements differ...