Agree or Disagree?

#1

Ok, first I should advise not to digest, if you will, this post until you have at least 45 min or so to put into it..

The following are some lines of Immortal Technique, the rapper, that either strongly agree with, strongly disagree with, or don't understand at all..
I will post the lines, but not my thoughts (until after), so it isnt biased or anything..

If you have time, please state whether you think each set of lines means, if they are valid, and why or why not. I can link you to the song if you need more context.

Alright..

1)

The voice of racism preaching the gospel is devilish
A fake church called the prophet Muhammad a terrorist
Forgetting God is not a religion, but a spiritual bond
And Jesus is the most quoted prophet in the Qu'ran

2)

How could this be, the land of the free, home of the brave?
Indigenous holocaust, and the home of the slaves
Corporate America, dancin' offbeat to the rhythm
You really think this country, never sponsored terrorism?

3)

They gave Al Queda 6 billion dollars in 1989 to 1992
And now the last chapters of Revelations are coming true

4)

And they thought nobody noticed the news report that they did
About the bombs planted on the George Washington bridge
Four Non-Arabs arrested during the emergency
And then it disappeared from the news permanently
They dubbed a tape of Osama, and they said it was proof
"Jealous of our freedom," I can't believe you bought that excuse

5) Aight had to do the whole verse for this one... please be thorough...

And just so Conservatives don't take it to heart
I don't think Bush did it, 'cuz he isn't that smart
He's just a stupid puppet taking orders on his cell phone
From the same people that sabotaged Senator Wellstone
The military industry got it poppin' and lockin'
Looking for a way to justify the Wolfowitz Doctrine
And as a matter of fact, Rumsfeld, now that I think back
Without 9/11, you couldn't have a war in Iraq
Or a Defense budget of world conquest proportions
Kill freedom of speech and revoke the right to abortions
Tax cut extortion, a blessing to the wealthy and wicked
But you still have to answer to the Armageddon you scripted
And Dick Cheney, you fuckin leech, tell them your plans
About building your pipelines through Afghanistan
And how Israeli troops trained the Taliban in Pakistan
You might have some house niggaz fooled, but I understand
Colonialism is sponsored by corporations
That's why Halliburton gets paid to rebuild nations
Tell me the truth, I don't scare into paralysis
I know the CIA saw Bin Laden on dialysis
In '98 when he was Top Ten for the FBI
Government ties is really why the Government lies
Read it yourself instead of asking the Government why
'Cuz then the Cause of Death will cause the propaganda to die..

6)

I want fifty three million dollars for my [collar stand (?)]
like the Bush administration gave to the Taliban

7)

two million people in prison keep the government paid

8)

brought the truth to your face with the style I run wit
like the navy missile that shot down flight eighthundred
I'm like the africans who came here before Colombus
and from the 15hundreds until after the model
I watch Latin America get raped in the sorrow
You see the spanjards never left Espace the Cologne
and if you don't believe me, you can click on Uni Mission

9)

Try to confuse you, makin' it hard to follow this:
capitalism and democracy are not synonymous

10)

swallow mercenary, I don't care how I get richer
like American companies that did business with Hitler

11)

The temple of nights when they took Jerusalem nigga
And figured out what was buried under Soloman's temple
Al Aksa, the name is not coincidental

12)

But now I can see
I'm mentally and revolutionarily free
Broadening Horizons about what my people could be
If we wasn't set up to get shot locked or OD
You see families bleed because of corporate greed
And monopolizing weed is virtually impossible
So it wont be legalized and thats another obstacle
But I'm still rollin up pocket fulls of tropical
The governments involved directly so its unstoppable

Lost Ghost · #2

I think we should break it up and discuss one at a time....

1st one....I'm extremely uneducated on the topic...so I really have no stance on it.....but I do appreciate the lyrical content of it....whehter its true or not I'm not in a good position to judge...

#3

Dude! That is exactly how I feel! I hear all this shit in his song and I'm like "shit that can't be right..." But I am in no position to judge either, since this cat is beyond me intellectually..!

Anyone else wanna break it up one by one?

#4

wow... one at a time indeed. immortal technique, aye?! hook me up with some songs! :yes:

QUOTE(Aemeth)
1)

The voice of racism preaching the gospel is devilish
A fake church called the prophet Muhammad a terrorist
Forgetting God is not a religion, but a spiritual bond
And Jesus is the most quoted prophet in the Qu'ran

line 1: a huge danger this gets misinterpreted, yet it is an easy and understandable way to put it if you are able to put the person's so-called religiousness at the center of the tought. here goes: it is about bush and all think-alikes. they call themselves religious, yet are blind to human equality. they believe they are correct judging persons, but need Something else to judge themselves. the devil's own indeed. a sad bunch really.

line 2: i have come to believe that the catholic church including all its offspring is fake indeed. refer to this other thread about the word "church" recently posted by me and answered to by raum.

line 3: forgetting what we now refer to as "God" is an eye-opener. it makes you more religious, because somehow, there is no doubting the existence of good and evil.

line 4: so why is the west battling the east? why are the muslims angry with the "west"?

Lost Ghost · #5

^...so uh......you need to post more... came in....no bullshit...and answered the man's question with a complex breakdown....impressive...now once that post count gets above 11.....you'll be a highly appreicated member here..

and Aemeth....its not nessicarly on that one that he's above me intellectually....I'm just ignorant on the whole religion topic and refferances........you seem to know quite a bit about the bible and sorts....so I don't know if we're in the exact same situation yano?

#6

LG, right, I meant to imply on topics of this nature..

Brains, could you plz elaborate more on the forgetting "God" part...I don't quite see what you mean..

Raum, A?

#7

oh and B, about the songs, get at me on MSN - [email protected] - i can send you some..

Lost Ghost · #8

Didn't you post a couple of songs on here already?

2)

How could this be, the land of the free, home of the brave?
Indigenous holocaust, and the home of the slaves
Corporate America, dancin' offbeat to the rhythm
You really think this country, never sponsored terrorism?

These bars...as far as I can tell are targetting the naive people in this country that think only bad stuff happens where those poor people live......the true curroption happens in boredrooms where dicussions are passed around among people in $500 suits.. it's saying American isn't as do-good as it seems to be and that we need to stop focusing on the horrible events in other countries and prevent the ones in ours...even if they occur behind closed doors...

#9

Brains is very welcome, as a personal guest, but LG's right man... up that post count! let's see ya here more often.

Aemeth, this basically combines some speculation, misinformation, relatively unknown facts and anti-establishment elements of minority solidarity in a way that rhymes, and flows. His real message is not the trivia he provides, some of which was believed and since disproved, or at least never proven. His general tenet is the basis of modern Christianity is nor spiritual but Capitalistic... which persecutes the *implied* spiritually legitimate Islam. His conviction and bias evidentally do not not get suspended, as he clearly embraces even loose accusations against the American Government, without testing his findings with skepticism, or he decided to say some of these line to make it rhyme and flow.

I will add some comments, but not in the sections you created.

The voice of racism preaching the gospel is devilish
A fake church called the prophet Muhammad a terrorist
Forgetting God is not a religion, but a spiritual bond
And Jesus is the most quoted prophet in the Qu'ran

the church never called Muhammed a terrorist. Rome wasn;t even christian, which was a small sect.
God is NOT a religion, it is the Hebrew word for "Destiny", not IHVH. IHVH is the "Destiny of the Jews," and Judiasm is not a religion. It is a culture. He is clearly addressing the Gentiles, not the Jews.

How could this be, the land of the free, home of the brave?
Indigenous holocaust, and the home of the slaves
Corporate America, dancin' offbeat to the rhythm
You really think this country, never sponsored terrorism?
They gave Al Queda 6 billion dollars in 1989 to 1992
And now the last chapters of Revelations are coming true
And they thought nobody noticed the news report that they did
About the bombs planted on the George Washington bridge
Four Non-Arabs arrested during the emergency
And then it disappeared from the news permanently

He is calling America hypocrites, for having such an idealistic philosphy about prosperity and harmony, and calling attention to what they did to the indigenous Amercians. Then he begins to address America's support of foreign revolutionary movements as "supporting terrorism." Many people upset with America consider this distiction arbitrary, and in some cases, it certainly seems so.

They dubbed a tape of Osama, and they said it was proof
"Jealous of our freedom," I can't believe you bought that excuse
And just so Conservatives don't take it to heart
I don't think Bush did it, 'cuz he isn't that smart
He's just a stupid puppet taking orders on his cell phone
From the same people that sabotaged Senator Wellstone
The military industry got it poppin' and lockin'
Looking for a way to justify the Wolfowitz Doctrine

It was speculated that the Osama Bin Laden tape was an old tape and the voice whisch carried forth his confession was believed and reported by an extremist arabic newssite to not be his. the greatest defense is it showed him standing, and his dialysis leaves his so weak he is stuck in bed. Paul Welstone was a senator - a liberal who is well worth studying (for a change). He was planning to run for president in 2000, and at the last moment backed out. He died in a pilot-error plane crash in 2002.

Wolfowitz is the President of World Bank, and chief architect of the Bush Doctrine on Foreign Policy. Bush was VERY criticized for having Wolfowitz structure his doctrine, who is a throwabck from his father's Defense department who inflated the American defense budget exponentially. His political career is impressive and he is an openly Democratic pro-Israel neo-conservative who has funded (privately) Iranian dissidents; writers and speakers. Yes, he is a "Democrat." This has drawn suspicion since he Reagan was in office. Many believe he has also funded more *aggressive* movements.

And as a matter of fact, Rumsfeld, now that I think back
Without 9/11, you couldn't have a war in Iraq
Or a Defense budget of world conquest proportions
Kill freedom of speech and revoke the right to abortions
Tax cut extortion, a blessing to the wealthy and wicked
But you still have to answer to the Armageddon you scripted
And Dick Cheney, you fuckin leech, tell them your plans
About building your pipelines through Afghanistan
And how Israeli troops trained the Taliban in Pakistan
You might have some house niggaz fooled, but I understand
Colonialism is sponsored by corporations
That's why Halliburton gets paid to rebuild nations

Wolfowitz was the first to advise the administration to advance from Afghanistant to Iraq, in its focus on Terrorism. He has served in indonesia for some time, and had regional information of important that he provided for the Invasion of Iraq. Ya boy clearly thinks 9/11 was engineered, to build a military to support the econims stratification of American corporate greed, which is based on its capture of the oil in the middle east. The House-* fooled are *probably* references to Condaleeza Rica dn Colin Powell. Halliburton is a corporation that rebuilds nations after america commits acts of combat on their soil. Despite what people think, this is barely part of their work. Over 80% of their business is energy. Dick Cheney was the CEO in the ninties, got a fat severance, has rtons of stock, in isured "fixed payments." Dekmocrats love to blame Cheney and say he is trying to get rich off this, but in 2000, he left the company and insured his stock and gets about 100,000 a year off their yield of over 400,000 unexercised options of stock. He vowed top donate all profits to charity, and has done so - to conservative charities including a anti-abortion organization. Other than his choices of charity (which will vary per person), it's pretty standard fare for a politician of any party.

Tell me the truth, I don't scare into paralysis
I know the CIA saw Bin Laden on dialysis
In '98 when he was Top Ten for the FBI
Government ties is really why the Government lies
Read it yourself instead of asking the Government why
'Cuz then the Cause of Death will cause the propaganda to die..

This seems to indicate he believes Osama Bin Laden is not responsible for the crimes he is personally wanted for. Also, as you can see, the picture they used on the wanted poster is not current, and he things bin laden's old picture is being used to make him look more threatening, and less like the innicent bedridden wastrel he must presume a person on dialysis is. i worked in a dialysis center. they are not all weak and skinny. some look VERY healthy and quite athletic. Cause of Death is the name of the song, or album...?

I want fifty three million dollars for my [collar stand (?)]
like the Bush administration gave to the Taliban
two million people in prison keep the government paid
brought the truth to your face with the style I run wit
like the navy missile that shot down flight eighthundred

As part of the war on drugs, the Taliban recieved 53 million dollars, plus weapons and training by Israeli and American special forces to assist in the control of opium produced illegally in Afghanistan. They used the money to buy VERY extravagant things, including an rediculously expensive coat rack that was the subject of media attention.

Flight 800 " target="_blank">[/b]

I'm like the africans who came here before Colombus
and from the 15hundreds until after the model

In 1982 a debate in American history was created by a treasure found in southern Illinois. Someone stumbled upon jewels, weapons, and other valuables in a remote cave. There also were stone tablets found, tjhat many believe are inscribed with illustrations of Romans, Jews, Christians, and even West African sailors who were FREEMEN. The authenticity of these objects was never granted any funds for research, and some feel it is because it would give definitive evidence of a legacy of free Africans in North America 15 centuries before Columbus landed here. Many (and perhaps this dude) believe that the "Colonialist" werre actually INVADING an already estabished country which had thricing economies, and this island was targeted for establishment of a new country by a secret society called the Illuminati... who have managed to destroy almost all remnants of the civilization that was here before they arrived. Most of them believe Adam Weishaupt, the leader of the Colonial Illuminati recruited from within the Masons, and faked his death to come here, as General George Washington, and fueled the occupation of America with hemp and opium. most of the people who believe this do lots of drugs or don't wash.

I watch Latin America get raped in the sorrow
You see the spanjards never left Espace the Cologne
and if you don't believe me, you can click on Uni Mission

(nary a clue what this about, or how it fits in...)

Try to confuse you, makin' it hard to follow this:
capitalism and democracy are not synonymous
swallow mercenary, I don't care how I get richer
like American companies that did business with Hitler

Several American companies did business with Hitler, and no company was forcidden to do so. Most of the companies did so before the final solution was ever established, and of note IBM worked in the capacity of the human inventory system that was used to keep stock of the Jews in concetration camps.

The temple of nights when they took Jerusalem nigga
And figured out what was buried under Soloman's temple
Al Aksa, the name is not coincidental

Al Aksa is where Muhammed ascended to heaven. Many muslims, especially Palesitinians believe the location of this was the Har ha-Bayit (Floor of the House, the name for the base of the temple Mount in Jerusalem. The increase in violence that started in 2000 andf inflamed the middle east, was supposedly caused by Ariel Sharon's visit to the location of the Mount of the Temple, and this has been completely disproven. The Palestinians have long disgarded this myth, and the public Commisioner admitted the violence was planned for months after iran turned the tables on America after a conference with the President, and the actions actually began a few nights before when several israeli police were assualted and a few were killed. At one time they lied and said he desecrated a Mosque which is one of the desputed sites believed to be Al Aksa infitada. He did no such thing, and was there during the public viewing hours, with other tourists. A huge group of palestentians protested and the police showed up.

But now I can see
I'm mentally and revolutionarily free
Broadening Horizons about what my people could be
If we wasn't set up to get shot locked or OD
You see families bleed because of corporate greed
And monopolizing weed is virtually impossible
So it wont be legalized and thats another obstacle
But I'm still rollin up pocket fulls of tropical
The governments involved directly so its unstoppable

hope that helps.

Note: It is good to question poular opinion and media but that doesn't mean that anything which says something different is right. Many of the views he expresses are by politically ignorant people,.. but some of his sentiments are easily validated. I can only conclude he is using it for a different tip for his music, and really doesn't consider it authoritative, or he is just more about things that *prove* his anger at American capitalism, and the *white lie* of the Illuminati. Believe him at your own risk. He is an entertainer.

vertical,
raum

#10

That song should be on the radio!!!!!!!

Okay, I have only looked at the main post, and not read other people's replies.

I have limited knowledge on the context, but my knowledge does support it.

I agree.

Basically, I reckon that George W. Bush just wants to have a war, no matter what. Any excuse has been and will be used. The whole thing probably was orchestrated from years back! He just wants to pull out his toy soldiers and have a skirmish in the mud, like GI Joe & Army Pete battlin' it out in the ditch near the side of the house!

He may as well go into battle in a chariot!

Or maybe someone else, or the Skull & Bones, that want to have a fight, and they are the hands on GI George who is commanding the battle.......

ADN

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