Israeli shell kills civilians on beach...

Bot · #21

Actually it is... the first line is your comment, and the rest is raum's response...

#22

an extensive answer raum. maybe too extensive.

I only pick one line which is telling:

QUOTE(raum)but so far as I see, you say Israel should stand down because Palestine shahid can't kill as many Israelis, due to having less military strength and funding.
that sir, is another totally incorrect opinion of me. I NEVER EVER said that "Israel should stand down because the Palestinians can't kill as many Israelis". That is utter nonsense; it could hardly be further from what I DO think. Come on, I am an absolutely naive pacifist. NO bloodshed for either side could be one of my credos. Talk, dialogue, communication, friends and happiness. Why the hell would I want more Israelis (or palestinians, or chinese, or americans...) dead?

The reason why I say "Israel should stand down" is because IT HAS THE POWER TO SAY SO. Heck. you even agreed with me there: it is easier for IS to hold ground than for the PA, because IS uses a controlled military; the PA has a bunch of absolutely desperate individuals whose only resolve could be suicide. The reason I say "Israel should stand down first" is because the former group is A LOT easier to control than the latter. The reason I say "Israel should stand down first" is to END the vicious circle!!

Yet, strangely enough. It is HAMAS which observed a cease-fire for (almost) 1.5y. What does it get after being democratically elected? Financial suffocation!

You said you want their word on "recognizing Israel"?! if it is the same hollow words the West uses to pursue wars for economic reasons, what good is it? HAMAS has SHOWN good will, instead of just uttering it with split tongues and yet... after democratic elections, it is punished.

#23

see, the whole thing is that HAMAS is not a country. Israel is.

a private organization based on the destruction of israel hardly observed a cease-fire with Israel, while other groups in palestine (of which some of HAMAS's members are also members) continued to fire missiles and detonate buses full of people. and the whole time the oberserved their cease fire they grew in numbers and powerand spread out to other countries.

Brains, seriously, you've never read HAMAS's charter, have you? You never saw how they were talking on TV about entrenching within all the people of the world, right? you completely glaze over the minute I put half of the evidence up, and YOU NEVER ADDRESS IT. C'mon Mr Pacifism, how do you feel about the shahid game, or the Al-fateh website? Yu may think my reply was lengthy,.. but I haven't shown you A SMALL PART OF THE EVIDENCE I HAVE FOR MY FIRM AND STRONG OPINIONS.

is raising your children to hate and kill a cease fire? no, its not having the guts to put the goddamn candle vest on yourself!

regrouping is not a cease-fire. and I am sure nt quite 5 year old kids named "Horseman of Osama" are going to have a bright future in a terror free world.

and several times you have mentioned that the Israelis cause far more casualties than they palestinians. and mention it when talking about endign the violence how effective and orderly Israeli action should cease and what the of the chos that is Palestine,.. that is the part of your plan that always seems to be missing.

I think the ordered response of Israel should be a complete denial of fuel and electricity until Palestine dedicates a intitiative to hunting down these terrorists that threaten their entire national reputation. and NATO can send troops, if need be.

#24

with news items like this one appearing almost every week, frankly I am not surprised a lot turn to thinking about being a shahid, are you?

#25

you mean the car full of men that jumped out and left the kids in the car? yeah, that sucks.

too bad you didn't seem to notice it was in retaliation to the QASSAM ROCKET THAT PUNCHED THROUGH A ROOF OF AN ISRAELI SCHOOL 5 minutes before the kids came back to class.

but now, back to the issue at hand, is Israel supposed to be all easygoing cause on one was hurt? sure those people in Palestine knew thse kids weren't in class,huh?

#26

Your wasting your time on Brains, he's on the side of the enemy.

#27

i am not at all bm - what makes you think so?

where do I say that these PA militants are correct in their actions? where did I attack Israel? I do not have an enemy. To have enemies, there needs to be hatred towards the other party. That is a feeling I hold to none.

Explain me please why you think so...

raum, where did you read these kids were IN the car? the report says they were playing NEAR the car!

#28

my bad, I read an article where it sounded like the kids were in the car.

anyways, this attack was to kill the team driving to a position to fire a missile at israel. But they were launching that missile in retaliation of the Gaza Beach attack on the family that Palestine said Israel tried to kill, though Israel denied it... right?

Well, the Human Rights Watch "specialist" Marc Garlasco said it was clearly a missile attack.

Oops! They changed their story, when one of the victims woke up. Oh, and their findings now have been revised to mirror my own. funny, that.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite? ... e/ShowFull

#29

raum. again, is your conclusion based only on a story of the Jerusalem Post??? is that the kind of news site you want me to use as well (instead of the BBC which I consequently link to)? just tell me, but then you have to accept Al Jazeera stories for unbiased fact as well, okays?

part of that JP story still reads: "there were still, Garlasco said, a number of pieces of evidence that the IDF commission did not take into consideration."

so, why - being as intelligent as you are - are you disregarding these statements? have you called me biased already, because if you have, you seem to be guilty of projection.

btw - although a deliberate shelling could as well be ruled out, it certainly appears to be an Israeli shell which lay unexploded on the beach until the family had picknick. certainly not a palestinian mine. Israel agreed to that chap.

boy. who said all options were still open almost a week ago?

#30

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_conte ... ticle=1129

do me a favor, Brains,.. find another new source that already reported one of the Gaza beach suriviors woke up. can't do it, huh. i haven't found one yet.

Yes, I read al-j, y-net, and many others some of which have a bias. Many times I find translations of other papers I can't read in languages I try to crunch.

Like the german paper that said the following:

[spoil:f7c56a78b9]German daily Sued Deutsche, said pictures taken by Zakaria Abu Irbad, 36, a cameramen with the Palestinian independent news agency Ramattan, contradict Palestinian claims that an IDF shell killed the Ghalia family and point to the possibility that the event was staged to hold Israel responsible.

Irbad was the first journalist to arrive at the s cene after the attack and Ramattan sold footage of Hadil weeping on the beach by her dead father to all major news broadcasters.

The newspaper said in footage of the beach taken by an IDF drone at the time of the attack, five craters left by IDF artillery shells could be seen, but that 250 meters away people could also be seen.

The paper said it is strange that although shells exploded 250 meters away from a beach site where Palestinian families congregated, no one was seen running away or panicking.

Irbad told the newspaper he was told of the attack by paramedics who guided him to the scene.

But no paramedics are seen until later in the footage, raising suspicions that he was first to reach the scene.

Moreover, if Irbad was the first to get to the scene, why were most bodies covered by sheets? Who was there first to cover the bodies? The newspaper asked.

'Did girl give instructions to cameraman?'

The newspaper also doubts Irbad's claim that Hadil was not injured because she was in the water when the shell exploded. His footage show her dry and fully clothed.

Another question raised by the newspaper is a shot of a man carrying a rifle next to the dead body of Hadil's father. The newspaper said in earlier footage, the same man was seen lying on the beach among the injured.

The footage also shows paramedics in green clothes and a dozen of bearded men looking for evidence. The newspaper asks whether the men are Hamas affiliates and wonders why they were preoccupied with collecting evidence rather than helping the injured.

Did Hamas men hide evidence from the scene, as claimed by eyewitnesses interviewed by Israeli broadcasters?

The newspaper said Irbad evaded most of the questions addressed to him.

Asked why he didn't try to calm Hadil instead of filming her he said: "She asked me to film her. She wanted to be seen next to her father to show the world the crimes that Israel is committing."

The newspaper finally asks: "Did the shocked 10-year-old girl, who had lost her father minutes earlier, give the cameraman direction instructions?"[/spoil:f7c56a78b9]

things that make MOST people go hmm,..

and as far as bias:

I have said I have a bias. My bias is based on the fact that the tenets of The Islamic Law of Sharia condemns me to death. In Israel, and only in Israel in the Middle East, would my essential tenets of faith be tolerated. My bias is towards a world where I could survive and be allowed to exist. Us Pantheists don't really have many enemies,.. but damn to the hell of their own creation the people who would kill me for discovering the truth of my soul.