"Wipe Israel off the Map" was misunderstood

#1

Many news sources have presented one of Ahmadinejad's phrases in Persian as a statement that "Israel must be wiped off the map"[4][5][6], an English idiom which means to cause a place to stop existing[7].

Juan Cole, a University of Michigan Professor of Modern Middle East and South Asian History, translates the Persian phrase as:

The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad).[8]

According to Cole, "Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to wipe Israel off the map because no such idiom exists in Persian" and "He did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse."[1]

The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) translates the phrase similarly:

[T]his regime that is occupying Qods [Jerusalem] must be eliminated from the pages of history.[9]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ah ... and_Israel

wtf. ok. reading through that page, the guy IS radical - I am NOT contesting that!. But he also is not as radical as "they" (the press, the west...) have made us believe...

Bot · #2

How is that any better? :?

And what about when he said the solution to the Israel/Lebanon crisis is to wipe Israel out. Was that "misunderstood" too?

#3

"Pages of history" is not a book... Pages of History is the work of the author of Creation.

This guy is sadly mistaken if he doesn't take this as a threat.

He is saying that the people in Jerusalem have no future, and their past is a lie.

he is saying they aren't real, and he is all to eager to offer clarity to their non-existence.

http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page= ... D=SP101305

Bot · #4

QUOTEVery soon, this stain of disgrace [i.e. Israel] will be purged from the center of the Islamic world †™‚¢‚¢¢¢¬…¡‚¬‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢

‚¬Å“ and this is attainable.

QUOTEThis will be a short period, and if we pass through it successfully, the process of the elimination of the Zionist regime will be smooth and simple.

Yup, misunderstood...

#5

raum: memri also translated as " [T]his regime that is occupying Qods [Jerusalem] must be eliminated from the pages of history.". The regime, not the country. Now I am not saying this is NO threat. I am saying that apparently we have been given a wrong translation which overdoes Ahmadinejad's already dangerous words to more extreme levels, which make them extremely unacceptable.

kramer: he is talking about the regime, the current government, the administration, not about the people, not even about the country. at least that is what I understood from that wikipedia page, which seems to be well documented and does not consequently change Ahmadinejad's speeches for the better.

the translations you give are the ones we have heard. apparently - according to that wiki-page - translating persian is not that straightforward.

Bot · #6

Do you honestly think he only wants the regime gone? Once that's accomplished, he'll stop? Don't be so naive, Brains.

#7

No dictator or religious fanatic will ever stop. Once he eliminates his enemy, you will find that a new enemy arises and needs to be "cleansed".

#8

kramer: (1) in an inter-human relationship we are (mostly) bound to verbal communication. that (verbal communication) is wholefully inadequate to transmit ideas / concepts, emotions, visions, plans. you see that each and every day on the office floor; I lost count of the amount of meetings I attended where the message as well as the reply is lost because of failing communication. humans just do not communicate very effectively even in their own language, let alone when you translate languages.

(2) On first acquaintance, I also suppose the correspondent means good. THAT may be naive, but still I suppose so. If nothing else, it protects ME from having prejudices towards persons crossing my lifeline. THEY will have to prove me wrong before I change that opinion and YES, I have been stabbed in the back a couple of times, but I will not change my first opinion on others.

I do not know Ahmadinejad very well. I learned about him a little bit when he got elected. I read the translations of his controversial speeches and had the very same reaction you had: "That guy is foolish as well as dangerous." Now, the important part here is: "I do not know him very well." People translated that for me and I had to accept. Now, I learn something else. Communication somehow was again failing. So now, maybe it is time to reflect on: "That guy is foolish as well as dangerous." Maybe he is not so foolish, nor dangerous, but just voicing his opinion using strong words. The guy HAS said lots of bs, but the official Iranian stance still is "We want peace." With the religious state Iran is, I wonder, RAUM: "How are lies looked at by Islam?"

Now, I wonder about you saying "Do you honestly think he only wants the regime gone? Once that's accomplished, he'll stop? Don't be so naive, Brains." Why do you think I am naive? How come you are so sure he will move on after the regime change? What do you base yourself on? The same controversial speeches which have been ill-translated or do you have more info?

#9

In Islam, the only person you can really "lie" to is someone who doesn't know the truth, i.e. you can say what you like to a non-Muslim. Mohammed's deception of non-Muslims is as much a sign of his natural leadership as the trickster gods of pantheistic cultures, or jesus's ability to make the Rabbis eat their words by dropping a word on them that leaves them scanning the Torah for a clever retort.

but in the middle east, lying is a way of getting what you want, and honesty to strangers is considered a weakness among deperate people, much like trust is seen by "street-smart" people.

Bot · #10

Brains, your problem from day one has been that you always take everything literally. You need to re-read the speech raum posted, but this time read between the lines (and no, I don't mean literally read between the lines).

This is not an isolated incident. He's been making these controversial comments since he was elected. Just this month he said the solution to the Israel/Lebanon crisis is the destruction of Israel... but I'm sure that was "misunderstood" too. But what about the Holocaust art gallery he opened? He's already called the Holocaust a myth (saying it never occured).

He constantly preaches hate toward Israel.

What do you think the Zionist regime represents?

QUOTE"One cartoon by Indonesian Tony Thomdean shows the Statue of Liberty holding a book on the Holocaust in its left hand and giving a Nazi-style salute with the other."