Crazy....

[theseeker]

What is the ultimate punishment for killing someone? What will your fate really be when you stand there at judgment? Animals kill off and eat each other all the time, but they weren't made in his image.... I mean what do you think really happens if you have killed someone for your own protection or your families protection? How do you think you would be viewed at judgement???????

[AYHJA]

If we are talking 'judgement' in the biblical sense, lets use the bible for an example...Cain was the first murderer in history, and killed his own brother...And if I'm not mistaken, he was given an empire, and God vowed to curse any man that laid a hand on him...

I think that pretty much sums it up for me...

[theseeker]

next? why was he allowed to get away with it? Why? this shit can not be that difficult. Why do the rules change over time..... This may seem like a dumb question but oh well.... I was watching discovery channel and it was one of those nature, lion type shits and the lion killed one of its own... Animals kill each other all the time, do they face any judgment??? This shit sounds dumb, but at the same time doesn't make any sense.... Life is life now matter what species, right?????????

[raum]

Ayhja spake:

If we are talking 'judgement' in the biblical sense, lets use the bible for an example...Cain was the first murderer in history, and killed his own brother...And if I'm not mistaken, he was given an empire, and God vowed to curse any man that laid a hand on him...

The orthodox interpretation of this was God so treated Cain as to try and end the cycle of violence Cain had begun. It obviously didn't work.

Here is the dilemna: either:

It should not be called the "Fruit of Knowledge of Good and Evil", what it should be called is "Fruit of Knowledge of Implications of One's actions." By Elohim's own decree, Adam could have been an ignorantly blissful beast of a raping cannibal, breeding children from Eve and bashing them open like coconuts on the rocks of paradise, and IN IGNORANCE of his action, he would be sinless, no matter how atrocious his actions. He would develop into something greater, and finally be ready to assume his power, when properly evolved. He might be punished, but not held accountable. How can you hold a test animal accountable, or even a pet? Can you whip your dog everytime he licks himself in the living room with everyone watching? It is when he REALIZES the implication of his actions and situation that he is expected to act accountable for his action (like omfg, I'm nekkid! He was naked before, and prolly doing the same kind of things your pet does in your presence right now, like humpin god's leg, so he made woman).

The unpleasing but neccesary steps in man's evolution would have still happened, and probably would have been worse, but for a shorter period of time. Entire genocides among the sons of Adam would have been executed with the innocence with which a child dismantles a living cricket. What man did by partaking of the fruit was prematurely awaken higher parts of his consciousness before the neccessary evolutionary steps were taken in his development. This caused his awareness to become so highly evolved, that his nature was restricted by his uncertainty. Make no mistake, there is neccessary evil in the Alchemy of Man's creation, or Elohim would not have created a tree of the Knowledge of the implications of one's actions.

The thing is : THIS WAS THE PLAN, because Elohim created by nature, a Ha-Shaitan to be advesary, and Adam to be the reconciler between them. Only by this division, could Elohim exhalt his own being, which was a natural evolutionary process for it's being.

vertical,
raum

(as for animal consciousness, or Nephesh, we all have it, the beast within, and it was neccessary we have it from the start. The oldest animals alive were and are carnivores. Shit used to be screwed on REAL tight in Eden... lotsa hungry mouths fulla sharp teeth.

[theseeker]

Look, I'm fucked up and the next time I log in I'm probably going to be fucked up, so...... Can someone put that long shit raums talking about in english, 21st century english, instead of early, never been heard in a real long time anglo saxon....

[highlife]

I think your asking more than one question

Does God forgive all sin or is murder unforgivable?
I believe God forgives all sin of those who repent and change in there heart. It says the thing he will not forgive is denial of the holy spirits power

Does God forgive sin but still punish the sinner and if so where does that punishment take place?
Yes. He can still test you in the flesh but still accept you into heaven

Can animals sin
Reread raums post.

I dont know what was in Cains heart when he passed on so i dont know if he was forgiven and went to heavan.I dont remember if the bible speaks to that. As for his time on earth he was certainly punished. He was a farmer by trade and God took away his ability to grow anything from the ground. Back in those days im sure having your trade taken away would have been devastating. No classifieds and no unemployment applications. Next he was kicked out of his home land and forced to wonder for years. Family, home and his skills all taken away. Raum explained why he was given protection

raum.....What man did by partaking of the fruit was prematurely awaken higher parts of his consciousness before the necessary evolutionary steps were taken in his development.

me.......Are you saying that if we had killed unchecked by our awareness of right and wrong that we would have evolved differently?

[Pete]

Look, I'm fucked up and the next time I log in I'm probably going to be fucked up, so...... Can someone put that long shit raums talking about in english, 21st century english, instead of early, never been heard in a real long time anglo saxon....

Hey, he doesn't say things lightly, nor does he post lightly. Sure his words can seem quite dense at first, but that's because he puts A LOT into his words. It's a lot to process.
He does give a lot of analogies to help explain things.



Here.

God told Adam & Eve to NOT eat the fruit from the Tree of "Knowledge".

Yet, God PLANTED that tree.


So, if God didn't want Adam and Even to eat from it at all, why would he plant that tree?
Doesn't that contradict the situation?
Why would he create it at all, and put it in their presence?

There must be some reason why.........


He told them NOT to eat it, by that very fact, he gave them a choice. He gave them the choice to NOT eat from it.


Satan egged Eve (and through Eve, Adam) on to take the choice of eating from the tree.
That was the opposing choice.


Straight up, that sets up the idea of Evil being the opposite of Good.


And begins the idea of implications of one's actions. God WANTED Adam and Eve to face those implications. "Should I or shouldn't I?" It's like in cartoons where they have the good conscience and bad conscience, God & Satan, Good & Evil, each proposing what the person should decide. They both say what the implications are.
It's just that Adam & Eve jumped the gun, and got themselves stuck into facing implications a bit too early. But yet again, why didn't God just plant that tree later on?




Another thing- Killing is not exactly the same thing as murder.

A little kid doesn't intend to murder a cricket when they pick its guts to pieces. Sure, they killed the creature, but they didn't intend to harm the life and soul, to diminish and destruct the well-being of it.


One day while driving on the road, I saw something bolt across the highway. It happened very quickly, and I accidentally run over it. I heard the SPLAT! and was horrified. I screamed "I MURDERED the animal!" I was devasted. I felt that just because I ceased the life of that animal, I was a murderer.

But afterwards, and when I examined the scene, I realised that I didn't at all intend to kill the animal. I did kill it (it was a rat). But I didn't MURDER it. I was not vindictive or malicious in my actions.


In another thread, I will bring up the topic and discuss why people are malicious and vindictive. Check out my "Shadow Dancers" thread.


That's why people are jailed for murder, even if they didn't actually kill anyone. They INTENDED to murder, and that itself is so sinister and evil, is prohibited by law.

[Pete]

(as for animal consciousness, or Nephesh, we all have it, the beast within, and it was neccessary we have it from the start. The oldest animals alive were and are carnivores. Shit used to be screwed on REAL tight in Eden... lotsa hungry mouths fulla sharp teeth.

True. Once I was so aggressive when I was hungry, and riled up from waiting to eat dinner, that I stabbed my sister with my fork................

[raum]

raum.....What man did by partaking of the fruit was prematurely awaken higher parts of his consciousness before the necessary evolutionary steps were taken in his development.

me.......Are you saying that if we had killed unchecked by our awareness of right and wrong that we would have evolved differently?

I think we would have developed differently, in that we would act without restraint, and thus most of the atrocious parts of man's development would be over faster. I also think developing in the presence of God would have an accelerating effect on our consciousness as well.

Assuredly though, gardens must be cultivated, and there would be meat-eating creatures in the garden, and meat don't grow on trees.

But keep in mind, that according to the Bible, this Olam (or world) is not the world that Eden was in. Eden was a different "Olam". This Olam "Assiah" is one that only emerged after the Deluge (The Flood Noah endured.) Our Auriah (or "Light of Yah" the root for the word Aura, and called "The Body of Light", the spark of Yah that embues all mankind, and can exist without the need for the body.) can visit the others, but they are not materialized. Funny how the fundamentalist forget that part of the teachings of Jehosophat to Moses.

[highlife]

As usual its going to take some time to wrap my head around raums views on this.

Once I was so aggressive when I was hungry, and riled up from waiting to eat dinner, that I stabbed my sister with my fork................

Pete ...what the??????. Where you trying to eat your sister