T.O. thinks Goodell 'unfair' to Vick

[jdog]

RE: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/f ... index.html

Owens said he would welcome Vick as a teammate.

"Michael Vick is a guy that really hasn't any character issues besides what he got a prison sentence for, so why not?" he said.

So, here's my question...is he already starting a QB controversy with the Bills? The same that he has done with every single team he has ever been with? By saying that he'd welcome Vick as a teammate...Vick isn't going to settle for a backup QB position AFAIK.

Edit- He was just cleared to play in the NFL again by week 6.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4359354

You just can't keep a dog down I guess...unless you drown it.

[¡ñ±£¿®∆L Ф¶†ïς@п]

Michael Vick served two years for his crimes, to the entire state and audience of America.

Six weeks into the season is fair enough, I suppose, but I still think it is too much. He served his time, he gave his heartfelt apology in what was one of the best speeches an NFL-player has addressed to the public, and Goodell probably did what was necessary, an in-league reprimand for Vick.

If it was me, in the best interest of fairness and true second chances, I'd have maybe suspended Vick 2-4 weeks, if at all, or I would have let him participate from the onset of the season if there was a stipulation that a 15-20% of his paycheck was to be deducted, and another 10% should go to charity.

[trashtalkr]

I can completely understand the partial suspension. Yes, he did serve his time to the government and society, but he completely damaged the NFLs public image. I think this is making a good example that it is not a right to play in the NFL. I'm glad it's not a full suspension, though.

I think part of his paycheck should got to a non-profit that helps abused animals. And, I think at least 50% of his paycheck should go to getting out of bankruptcy. And yes...that should be regulated

[AYHJA]

Let me get this straight...

Stallworth killed a man drunk driving...Spent a month in jail...Vick headed up a dog fighting ring, and spent a year in prison...If someone can explain that shit out to me, I'd be most eager to listen, but as much as I think T.O. talks shit, he's right on with this one...He's been out of the NFL for 2 years, has lost almost everything, and he's being punished by the NFL..? For fucking what..? Makes no sense...

he completely damaged the NFLs public image

Bro...You can't honestly believe that, can you..?

[¡ñ±£¿®∆L Ф¶†ïς@п]

he completely damaged the NFLs public image

Bro...You can't honestly believe that, can you..?

This is a yes and a no.

It was a complete and utter embarrassment at the time of the dogfighting discovery that one of the NFL's most highly-marketed and profiled athletes would engage in such a spectacle, let alone organize and partake in the killings (allegedly).

It wouldn't have mattered as much if say, a 'Chansi Stuckey' (I'm guessing he's a 3rd-string wideout somewhere, but for me, he's an example of someone no one really knows or cares about) participated in these vicious acts of fighting/gambling, he'd get a quick blurb and media lashing, then be forgotten about all over again. But to have the veritable "Michael Jordan" icon-like athlete of the NFL doing this, well, it really cast a huge shadow of speculation and scorn onto the league as a whole. He betrayed his teammates/coaches, his fans, his sponsors, and his entire participation in the sport because he organized in part an illegal gambling ring just to make a quick buck and/or for "shit and giggles". Celebrities and athletes alike are held to an incredibly unfair standard of conduct because they are in the public audience constantly, but for him not to consciously know that if his dog-fighting ring were ever to be exposed, he'd suffer the gravest of consequences. Well, he didn't think so far, and he did, eventually get caught and punished.

He's getting his second chance now, and I truly wish him the best in his endeavor, because he has suffered the repercussions of his crime, and I truly believe he is remorseful for his past actions (even if it was solely because he was caught... maybe if he wouldn't have been found out, he might feel have felt sorry in an alternate timeline and confess his crimes after the fact, but this is a very unrealistic scenario that we'll never be witness to).


On the other hand, we as a general audience, don't really care about anything. I know I care very little about everything, so I multiply that by millions. it's only when there is a forum to vocalize opinions does the the real show of "concern" start to trickle in. Without that, there's not really a way to quantify the feelings of an entire nation in regards to the fate of Michael Vick: some want to see him hang, some don't really care if ever "bounces" a ball again. (/that was a funny)

We'll put this past us for the time being, and we'll go about to not really caring what happens to Vick again.
This'll go on for a long time, up until the veteran discussion arises--and Vick's name once again becomes relevant, and the debate will go on about whether or not his contributions in the immediate future warrant further analyzation in the coming decades if Vick deserves Hall-of-Fame mention. This is a big "IF", but if he truly makes the most of this second chance, there is slight chance his plays will override the crime. I don't know, or care, either way. :?:

[Drew]

To me, this is all about the NFL and Goodell keeping up his image of ruling with an iron fist. I heard on a sports program recently that the REAL reason he is doing this, aside from all the "gave us a bad image" nonsense, is that Vick openly lied to him about it when this was first brought up years ago. And despite it being a personal type vendetta, he can always use the cover of the league to have his back on his rulings.

Personally, I would not suspend him for any further time. He has served more time in jail than many other athletes who have committed far worse crimes, so he has paid in debt to society. The problem of course is that, for athletes, society is not the only entity that collects debt on their ass. It is completely commonplace for professional sports to assess additional penalties on people regardless of whether or not they serve time or what their off the court punishment may be. So it's almost as if the fact that he went to jail is irrelevant in the NFL's eyes. It's all about now paying the debt to the league, to which I say four to six games is fair.

[¡ñ±£¿®∆L Ф¶†ïς@п]

I totally meant to address this in some way, the "Dirty Harry" approach that Goodell has imposed on the NFL as commissioner. The smallest infraction you commit against the league's image, and you will invariably get slapped by the Commish, his backhand, and twice. I couldn't really pull the examples or resources to address it previously, but I'm glad you did, Drew. :D

Also, if you are new, welcome, and you made a great way to jump into the forum.

To me, this is all about the NFL and Goodell keeping up his image of ruling with an iron fist. I heard on a sports program recently that the REAL reason he is doing this, aside from all the "gave us a bad image" nonsense, is that Vick openly lied to him about it when this was first brought up years ago. And despite it being a personal type vendetta, he can always use the cover of the league to have his back on his rulings.

Personally, I would not suspend him for any further time. He has served more time in jail than many other athletes who have committed far worse crimes, so he has paid in debt to society. The problem of course is that, for athletes, society is not the only entity that collects debt on their ass. It is completely commonplace for professional sports to assess additional penalties on people regardless of whether or not they serve time or what their off the court punishment may be. So it's almost as if the fact that he went to jail is irrelevant in the NFL's eyes. It's all about now paying the debt to the league, to which I say four to six games is fair.

[Drew]

Thank you, I appreciate the warm welcome, I only wish I could write/spell/say your name properly, is there any shortcuts you go by lol?

I think the more important question here is: Do you think it is fair for the NFL to punish its players for actions that happen outside of the workplace/field/training facility?

I'm not sure how a lot of real world companies handle stuff like this, but I know at the job I currently have and the school I currently attend....assuming the things do not happen on site...I'll have to pay my debt to society, but not to either of those places.

So what do you think? Do companies have the right to take action against their employees for whatever it is they do wrong?

And if you feel that is it okay, where do you draw the line?

That's my problem with the issue, it doesn't seem like there is a fair point to draw the line, so the overall decision just has to be a no. Otherwise what is it going to come down to? A player's wife calls the police because of a domestic dispute and now the player has to sit out the first 9 minutes of the first quarter? It seems like it would be more of a headache than anything. But if you're going to say that the NFL should only come down in big instances like this one, that's not fair either.

[¡ñ±£¿®∆L Ф¶†ïς@п]

Regarding my username: whatever nickname that came to mind when you first encountered it is fine; others around me have adopted the moniker 'IO' to refer to me, (it's short and sweet) so feel free.




See, I didn't initially think of this quandry, it was the radio personalities I used to listen to: The (Sports) Junkies

But I do find it incredibly bewildering that after the courts of law find that the accused NFL athlete has served time for their crime, and contributed back to the community, Goodell still has the option, and some may say, the duty, to punish them even further. That just makes no sense to me as a decent human being; it does appeal to my sense of reason and my understanding of politics, but it's just yet another example of kicking a man when he's down.

But, I guess since Vick is even being considered to be allowed a future in the NFL after what he brought upon himself and the sport in which he participates, I do understand why he still must be reprimanded further, if only to save face of the league and/or appease Commissioner Goodell.




As an aside: Have or do you dally in the little hobby of Fantasy Football? We need a couple newcomers for our league, and if it was in your interest, you'd have probably found out about it, but here's the league's thread anyway:
Fantasy Football 2009 [AF Elite]

Feel free to join in if you'd like, 'cause I think we need fresh faces/replacements; just e-mail trashtalkr with interest.

If is not your thing, though, don't feel pressured to join on my account. I'm just trying to gauge general interest, and you're the only new guy I've talked to in the past four months. :D

Thank you, I appreciate the warm welcome, I only wish I could write/spell/say your name properly, is there any shortcuts you go by lol?

I think the more important question here is: Do you think it is fair for the NFL to punish its players for actions that happen outside of the workplace/field/training facility?

I'm not sure how a lot of real world companies handle stuff like this, but I know at the job I currently have and the school I currently attend....assuming the things do not happen on site...I'll have to pay my debt to society, but not to either of those places.

So what do you think? Do companies have the right to take action against their employees for whatever it is they do wrong?

And if you feel that is it okay, where do you draw the line?

That's my problem with the issue, it doesn't seem like there is a fair point to draw the line, so the overall decision just has to be a no. Otherwise what is it going to come down to? A player's wife calls the police because of a domestic dispute and now the player has to sit out the first 9 minutes of the first quarter? It seems like it would be more of a headache than anything. But if you're going to say that the NFL should only come down in big instances like this one, that's not fair either.

[AYHJA]

I just call him IO... :D He's one of the more awesome members to join AF in recent years, its an honor to have him here...

This is my thing...I'm all balls to the wall common sense most of the time...I have played a small measure of football in my life...But I have never been hit by a 6'4" motherfucker running a 4.6 40 yard dash with every intention of trying to kill me...The NFL...It's a crazy violent sport...You have to be more than tough man, to get in the mindset that you willing subject yourself to that kind of punishment...I mean, honestly...People have died playing football man...How many games have we watched where guys get knocked the fuck out from a hit..? How many specials have we seen where the brain of a 38 year old retired football player resembles the brain of an 80 year old man with dementia..?

I mean, my point is that we want these men to be animals...We want them to be as violent and vicious as humanly possible...And to top it off, most of these motherfuckers aren't that smart to begin with...I mean, guys like Tom Brady...They are the exception, not the rule...Most of these dudes are the big tough jocks that struggle to get 16's on their ACT's and shit...

Why are we so shocked that they repeatedly get into trouble..? I mena, I had HUGE beef with Vick when this first came out...Not so much as for the dog fighting, but the fact that it was POINTLESS for him...Unless the dudes doing the betting are betting for the kind of money that would matter to you, that's stupid...If you just wanted to help the homies hustle, buy them niggas a cleaners and let them work there...If you were out killing dogs to prove to niggas you still hood, then you definitely deserve the jail time...Grrr, man I don't want to go off on another tangent...

Vick lied to everyone that could help him...The team owner and the commish...But going bankrupt and losing a year of freedom says that you got what you had coming...All I got to say is that when Roger gets his...Have mercy on his soul...