T.O. thinks Goodell 'unfair' to Vick

[Drew]

I don't really know who is shocked about these people getting in trouble, the lifestyle they live and the personas they are asked to maintain on the field is completely opposite of how they are supposed to act off of it, but thats not any different than the different masks people put on all the time. I bet a lot of people act different at work than they do kicking it with their buddies. It's having a different set of codes, rules, and actions for different situations.

And to clarify, although I'm not sure if it helps much, but NFL players have the highest average number of years spent in college, the most shit they have to learn when they get to the league, and I think I heard they, overall, have the highest mean IQ's of all the professional athletes....so let's not classify them as a bunch of dumb brutes all in one here.

The issue that I'm really seeing with this is whether or not it is fair for Goodell (regardless of league protocall or staying consistent with the past) to offer his own verdict and levy his own punishment for players.


EDIT: Sure, IO, I'm not the most knowledgeable football fan around, basketball is more my thing, but I'm down to join a fantasy league if you're looking for some more folks.

[jdog]

Let me get this straight...

Stallworth killed a man drunk driving...Spent a month in jail...Vick headed up a dog fighting ring, and spent a year in prison...If someone can explain that shit out to me, I'd be most eager to listen, but as much as I think T.O. talks shit, he's right on with this one...He's been out of the NFL for 2 years, has lost almost everything, and he's being punished by the NFL..? For fucking what..? Makes no sense...

he completely damaged the NFLs public image

Bro...You can't honestly believe that, can you..?

Donte Stallworth did only spend 30 days in jail. But has 1000 hours of community service, 2 years house arrest, 8 years probation and his driver's license is suspended for life. That's what he got for 2nd degree manslaughter and DUI.

From the NFL? He has been suspended indefinitely.

Michael Vick lied to the owner of the Falcons, to Roger Goodell and to his fans when he told them he wasn't a part of it. Then when he realized that they had hard evidence he tucked tail and plead guilty. I understand petty lies. We all do it. But you don't lie to your boss or anyone above them. You don't lie to all the kids that look up to you.

You also don't torture and kill dogs or any animals. It's a known fact that most serial killers start out by torturing and killing animals. Michael Vick is nuts and has zero respect for life. He's the worst role model that any kid can ever have.

Just read this: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/m ... index.html

I'll never forget what Michael Vick did and any team he plays for I will boycott.

Heck, Chris Henry (WR Bengals) looks like a golden child next to Vick.

[Drew]

Take it down a notch man. I can understand you being upset with him and having lost most or all of your respect for him....but the worst role model a kid could have? Saying he has no respect for life?

I think it has much, much more to do with the things Ayhja pointed out......wanting to keep up an image that he was still one of the boys despite his fame and fortune. He made a huge mistake, but he has paid his dues for that. He seems very sincere in his apology and willingness to make things right.

While I do not condone killing or hurting animals....there are murders playing in the NFL right now, and no one is really paying them much mind. For Vick, a lot of it seemed to be about the company that he kept...not nessecarily he, himself. Now thats not really an excuse, but I do not think you should be putting him up on a cross ready to crucify him just yet.

[jdog]

Take it down a notch man. I can understand you being upset with him and having lost most or all of your respect for him....but the worst role model a kid could have? Saying he has no respect for life?

I think it has much, much more to do with the things Ayhja pointed out......wanting to keep up an image that he was still one of the boys despite his fame and fortune. He made a huge mistake, but he has paid his dues for that. He seems very sincere in his apology and willingness to make things right.

While I do not condone killing or hurting animals....there are murders playing in the NFL right now, and no one is really paying them much mind. For Vick, a lot of it seemed to be about the company that he kept...not nessecarily he, himself. Now thats not really an excuse, but I do not think you should be putting him up on a cross ready to crucify him just yet.

Murderers playing in the NFL? I don't know of any convicted murderer playing in the NFL.

What does it teach kids that the most popular and highest paid athlete can lie to the highest management about the fact that he tortured and killed defenseless animals?

I know of a case recently where a fireman admitted to taking his two dogs and shooting them. He was fired from his job, no other fire fighting unit will take him and he's a complete outcast in his community.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/08/fir ... ills.dogs/

Yep, I will admit that I am a dog lover so this really strikes it deep with me. Sure, he's no rapist or pedophile but he sure doesn't belong on top of the world in the NFL in my book. I won't even mention that he was a horrible QB anyway.

[Drew]

Ehh okay, maybe not convicted murders....(well aside from Ray Lewis) but I'm sure there are a lot of guys who do a lot of horrible shit that either doesn't get reported, or gets brushed under the rug in order to protect their image. To me personally, beating your wife or your children is worse than dog fighting....and that is probably pretty common for at least a few NFL players on every team.

I don't want to seem like I'm defending Vick's actions...they were terrible, but if you don't think he has earned the right of getting a second chance, what's the point of the legal system in the first place?

[jdog]

Ehh okay, maybe not convicted murders....(well aside from Ray Lewis) but I'm sure there are a lot of guys who do a lot of horrible shit that either doesn't get reported, or gets brushed under the rug in order to protect their image. To me personally, beating your wife or your children is worse than dog fighting....and that is probably pretty common for at least a few NFL players on every team.

I don't want to seem like I'm defending Vick's actions...they were terrible, but if you don't think he has earned the right of getting a second chance, what's the point of the legal system in the first place?

Ray Lewis is not a convicted murderer. He plead guilty to obstruction of justice and was fined by the NFL a record $250,000.

The point of the legal system is not second chances. Jail or prison time is a punishment and not rehabilitation.

Despite the violent image, NFL football is merely a sport...a competition. If you want real violence look at hockey or even MMA. There have been many documented cases of athletes abusing their spouse or girlfriend. Heck, look at former Carolina Panthers wideout Rae Carruth.

Anyway, my point of Michael Vick is that a lot of people put animal torture and killing under the carpet, as if it's no big deal. But in fact it is. Like I said, many serial killers have documented history of starting out by torturing and killing animals. That's a mental psychopath thing that can't be undone by a couple years in prison. Michael Vick might have wrote apology letters to the HSUS and served a couple light years in a cozy prison cell but that won't change him and who he is. He was doing dog fighting well before he went into the NFL.

For someone to take amusement out of watching living creatures suffer? That's one sick, twisted human being.

[Drew]

Why does the dog fighting define him more than anything else he's ever done in his life?

I understand that you think its heinous, and it is, but by allowing him to play in the NFL after a suspension is not brushing it under the rug like it is unimportant. Let's not forget that he's probably still going to be openly protested at all of the games he DOES get to play in for some time.

The man made a huge mistake, has lost almost every he has...and is just trying to earn a living the way he knows how. I don't see what's so wrong with that.

[AYHJA]

You also don't torture and kill dogs or any animals

You a vegetarian..? I grew up in the south, we regularly went to the sale barn/slaughterhouse...I just ate, but I could go for a nice ass steak right now...

We're talking about dogs...Particularly vicious dogs...I mean, what he did was wrong...But he didn't kill a human being...People don't always grow up the same man...Some subcultures just do shit like that...It's almost as unfair for you to push your ideas of what you think is 'civilized' as it is for him to do it...If you are wearing a pair of gloves, you can beat a man to within an inch of his life and be called a champion...This dude killed dogs...Dogs...Not people...And we're calling him the scourge of humanity..? Please now...People kill horses, cows, deer, and all kinds of animals every day...I'm a dog owner, btw...But honestly...I couldn't have cared less that he was actually killing dogs...The reason why was my beef...

[jdog]

Why does the dog fighting define him more than anything else he's ever done in his life?

I understand that you think its heinous, and it is, but by allowing him to play in the NFL after a suspension is not brushing it under the rug like it is unimportant. Let's not forget that he's probably still going to be openly protested at all of the games he DOES get to play in for some time.

The man made a huge mistake, has lost almost every he has...and is just trying to earn a living the way he knows how. I don't see what's so wrong with that.

Does the dog fighting alone define him? No it does not. But his actions do in fact define him. Before the whole dog fighting came about he only had 2 charities. The first one, called "Michael Vick Foundation" but only $20,000 of the $170,000 raised actually went towards children. The rest? In people's pockets it seems. The 2nd was The Vick Foundation that was set up to help those who suffered in the Virginia Tech tragedy. His donation? A whopping $10,000. Guess how much he spent purchasing the property and running the dog fighting kennel that ran for 6 years?

Here's what Vick stated, "I'm never at the house...I left the house with my family members and my cousin...They just haven't been doing the right thing... It's unfortunate I have to take the heat behind it. If I'm not there, I don't know whats going on."

He had zero respect for the owner of the Falcons, the NFL commissioner Roger Goodell and all the men, women and children that were fans. He thought he could get away with it. He couldn't cover it up, he just plain denied it.

How many banks and businesses were effected by Michael Vick when he went to jail? He owes Joel Enterprises $45 million, the Atlanta Falcons $20 million, the Royal Bank of Canada $2.3 million, 1st Source Bank $2 million, Wachovia Bank $940,000 and U.S. Department of Labor $1.3 million. He didn't even file his taxes in 2007 when he was arrested. He owes the IRS $1.2 million.

Regarding the allowing to play in the NFL part...who would want him? He has a strong arm but is completely inaccurate. For years Falcons fans thought it was just poor wideouts that couldn't catch. The big draw to Vick was that you didn't know what he would do with the ball. But it's exactly the selfish type of person he is. He's not really a QB let alone a good QB worth playing in the NFL.

You really want this low life to possibly become a role model again and bring another team down due to his irresponsibility and selfishness?

[jdog]

You also don't torture and kill dogs or any animals

You a vegetarian..? I grew up in the south, we regularly went to the sale barn/slaughterhouse...I just ate, but I could go for a nice ass steak right now...

We're talking about dogs...Particularly vicious dogs...I mean, what he did was wrong...But he didn't kill a human being...People don't always grow up the same man...Some subcultures just do shit like that...It's almost as unfair for you to push your ideas of what you think is 'civilized' as it is for him to do it...If you are wearing a pair of gloves, you can beat a man to within an inch of his life and be called a champion...This dude killed dogs...Dogs...Not people...And we're calling him the scourge of humanity..? Please now...People kill horses, cows, deer, and all kinds of animals every day...I'm a dog owner, btw...But honestly...I couldn't have cared less that he was actually killing dogs...The reason why was my beef...

Ja...I'm not talking about food. Last time I checked, Vick wasn't raising those dogs to be food. I'll take a ribeye steak any day of the week.

Vicious dogs? Are you serious? Pit bulls aren't vicious dogs unless their owners raise them in that environment.

Maybe you should check this out, Ja...



And yes, my favorite Jessica even owns a pit bull. ;)

http://www.popsugar.com/213575