LeBron James, and the dunk that will never be seen

[jdog]

I don't see what the big deal was. He wasn't defending the guy and didn't even have a good position to block anything anyway.

Now the Scottie Pippen dunk on Patrick Ewing in 1994? That's a big deal...



http://www.nba.com/bulls/history/pippen10_940520.html

[Drew]

Okay! ::rubs hands together:: this is one I've wanted to talk about for a while.

First off, let's not dismiss this so quickly...while it wasn't meant to be put a poster, the dunk was pretty nice. Sure, LeBron was coming over on help defense, but that's how A LOT of big time dunks happen, people aren't always so quick to defend the guy getting dunked on because he was playing help.

Now, the whole issue of having the tapes removed and not shaking hands, Lebron is without a doubt a selfish, immature person. It of course seems to get overshadowed by his "unselfishness on the court"...but the dude can't really defend his actions as of late. One of the biggest things I'll never forget about this guy, is how cocky is he. While they were sweeping the first few rounds of the playoffs, and even near the end of the season...that whole team was coordinating dances and elaborate celebrations to just clown the other team with. I do not think anyone on that team who was taking part in that had any type of respect for their oppenent or the game. And so what happens when they finally lose? I think everyone knows about that.

They say you want to see the true measure of a man, look at how he loses, not how he wins. Lebron is a straight up punk for his actions after he loses. The worst part of it all, is not that he didn't shake hands with the Magic (this shit is straight disrepectful, but everyone knows that) but that he abandoned his teammates. The fact that he left the arena and left the rest of the team to talk to the media about their loss and the season... That is not only being a selfish immature man, but being a horrible teammate.

Most people are forgiven for their actual personalities...MJ was a prick...but to just leave your TEAM high and dry like that?

I've never seen someone I've wanted to lose more than the Cavs this past season, so I'm glad they did....but this just goes to show how Lebron James is as a man.


NOW.....to dispute what you said, Ty...I do not feel he is over hyped. The man straight GETS DOWN on the court. I'm confused if you're letting your personal feelings about him as a person or as a player get in the way of his numbers... Or if maybe you're saying he doesn't live up to the MJ comparison, but who really takes those seriously now days after every two years there's another next MJ.....who, Jerry Stackhouse, Antwan Jamison, Vince Carter.

What, exactly, is your beef with him as far as on the court goes?

[AYHJA]

A few days after the vid got released for whatever reason, ESPN made a top 10 'dunked on'...LeBron had TWO spots, including the top spot...Nope, not Starks over MJ and HoGrant...Not Kobe putting his nuts on Superman's chin...Not the VJ jumping over a 7 footer or them dunks he did over Alonzo and Mutumbo...Not even 'Oh what a move by Jordan!' dunk on the Knicks or the nasty shit Pip threw down on Ewing posted above...It was LeBron, doing the same damn dunk...Rolling right, and throwing it down with one hand...

Besides size and pure athleticism, where is all of this exceptional skills he possesses..? A blissfully pure jump shot..? A killer crossover..? Super Clutch..? Does he have nasty low post moves..? Is he nice with both hands..? A lock down defender..? And I'm not being sarcastic...I'm looking at dude, watching, and to me, if he wasn't 6'8" 260, would we even know who he was..? And again, I'm not saying dude isn't good, he is...I give him credit...But ready to put him in the top 50 of all time..? Pick him over Kobe or even D. Wade..? I am not...

He shoots close to 50% from the field, but he's 34% from 3...Under 80% from the line...He's gotten by so long on his physical skills, IMO, he'll be able to play at this level for a few more seasons...When he gets to his 30's, if that doesn't change, he'll be pure hype...

[Drew]

Yeah, that may be the case (the point about how he'll play when he's 30) but the fact of the matter is he isn't 30...and he IS 6'8'' 260. I mean, you can't really fault him for being born so physically gifted. Is he more skilled than D-Wade or Kobe, or even Melo? Not a chance....but he plays the game using his impressive physique.

The single worst moment in the playoffs for me this season was when he hit that buzzer beating three point shot at the end of game two of the Magic-Cavs series. I knew the series was pretty much already over by that point, but I just knew how much it would add to people's perception of LeBron as this amazing player who is elevating his game to the next level. He's still not up there with any of the greats because his team hasn't won anything yet....and I don't really see that happening until he gets a legit number 2....and no, Shaq, nor Mo Williams is a legit two....even the combination of them, doesn't make the cut.

But aside from all that, the man is a great player...he makes plays that no one else in the NBA can, he is exciting to watch, and some nights his statistics are out of this world. You'll always have players like that, ones that the fans love and overvalue. But, lets also remember that he is still pretty young, and unlike D-Wade who had a good veteran presence when he won the championship (even tho he single handly won it) LeBron has not had a player like that on any of his teams. He is still immature and doesn't have the appreciation for the game that'll take him to the next level.

I do not agree that he is all hype though, he's easily one of the 10 best players in the league right now (as far as what he can do on the court). He is not even close to having a top 10 legacy of active players as it stands now....nor do I think he should be drawing comparisons to any of the greats, or even be considered for the top 50....but you know thats just how people talk...how they get excited about things. I don't think you should let that get in the way of how YOU evaluate him, though. Just because everyone is in love with him doesn't mean you have to believe the hype and call him all-hype. The boy can play.

[jdog]

Anyone got a link to that ESPN top 10? I can't seem to find it!

[AYHJA]

^ Me either jdog!!^

Been looking since I made that post..! I'm sure its on here somewhere though...But I almost puked my vitamin water when I saw he had not 1, but 2 spots, including the top spot...And the fact that it was the same fucking dunk man..! I was too through...

As I said Drew, I give the man his due...I can't take nothing from him...And I don't believe I said 'all hype' but 'overhyped'...And he is certainly that, as you said more or less...Man, they ride LeBron's dick so hard..! Especially ESPN...He must be fucking the producer..."Oh LeBron's such a student of the game, and LeBron is such a good leader..." Dude is a good player, with the potential to be great...But I do not hand that accolade over easily...

But from a pure basketball standpoint...I just don't feel he's all that special, aside from the physical gifts...You gotta know, I'm an 80's baby...Fundamentals..! That's what I love about Kobe...When he was young, he had his flash, but you could tell he was always working towards being fundamentally sound...He developed his fade away shot, bank shot, post moves...All very early in his career...Dude shoots a pull up, fade away 3...That's C-R-A-Z-Y..! And he showed this year he can bang and do it against guys that are not only taller but outweigh him by 30 pounds...To compare, tell me you can see LeBron banging with Dwight Howard on the blocks, lol...

When I watch LeBron, I just don't see that...I see a hulk charging down the court, and God have mercy on your soul if you want to stand in the way of that...I mean, I suppose he is going to get better, and I'm sure he will...But...Right now, he's still riding that huge ass tsunami of hype that started when he was in High School and has yet to loose steam...But...I think that crown is getting a little tainted now though...This dunk...The way he behaved in the playoffs...

[Drew]

And I really am beginning to formulate why that is. I really think he does not have any role models or veteran players around to teach him to be a student of the game. Everyone is so high on him because of his physical gifts that he is already nicknamed the King.

King of what, exactly? King of dropping great stats but losing? All you gotta do is look back to two years ago when he was going mano-y-mano vs Paul Pierce and LOST! The dude just doesn't seem to want to get any better...and I really attribute that to not having anyone around him willing to pull him aside...or more importantly do it in front of everyone, and just rip into him for his failures and missteps. I mean who's gonna do it on that team? Danny Ferry? the dude who is willing to sell his wife or first born to make sure he stays? Mike Brown? Give me a break. Anyone else on the roster? Man they'd be on the next bus out of town..... No one is willing to step up to him, and because of this...he's got this entitled air about him that not only holds him back as a person, but as a player too...and I don't think anyone is realizing how much that is affecting his abilities (or lack of future abilities or wasted potential).

[AYHJA]

They just jumped so hard and so high on his dick so early man...And for the first time, somebody they did that to got to the league and did enough things that the hype seem warranted...Chris Webber was so hyped out of HS and college, that he had this crazy set of expectations put on him...He's probably viewed as not living up to his potential, when really, he was a pretty decent player, and evolved as a professional...Nothing LeBron is doing/done has impressed me where I'm just like, 'Yeah, dude is nice...' Big men drop dimes...Speaking of, Chris Webber was a helluva passer...And he was bigger and played the 4...Shit, Vlade Divac was a great passer...LeBron isn't a big time board snatcher...He has a team geared towards him and his talents...I'm not always impressed by the numbers, but again, dude is a player...I think he's good...Really, really good...He's just not great....

And DUDE...I totally forgot how they got owned by Boston...That's it, right there...Man, Paul Pierce is NOWHERE near the athlete LeBron is...Not even by a long shot...I mean, its not even close...But the fact that you could not discern that on the court...That sucks to me...When, if ever, have you seen Kobe getting lit up like that..? Shit, even D. Wade...You mentioned the Celts vs the Bulls...Rondo played out of his fucking mind..! But, if you had a choice...Between him and Chris Paul...You'd probably slap me twice for even thinking that Rondo would start on your squad over CP3...But, suggest that you'd rather have Paul Pierce than LeBron, and dudes would LOL you off the internet...Until you ask what is it, exactly, that LeBron does so much better than Paul..?

[AYHJA]

Now...If LeBron got dunked on the way Stackhouse did:



I'd probably hide the tape too...Deeezam..!

[Drew]

The person who needs to be highlighted in this clip and torn to shreds in Number 1 on Stackhouse's team.

Dude got left in the fucking dust and didn't think twice about it, just looked back to watch his teammate get dunked on....what a shame, that's like what basketball has become.