Great trilogy of movies if you ask me...More important than the awesome moves and special special effects, was some of the dialogue between the characters, their names, and tons of other symbolism...I wanted to take the conversation, between Neo and The Architect at the end, to break down and share with you guys...
Now, if you haven't seen the movies...What the hell...Go see them, and then come back..! Haha...Here goes...
[hr:f61b3cfbc1]
The Architect - Hello, Neo.
Neo - Who are you?
The Architect - I am the Architect. I created the matrix. I've been waiting for you. You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo, some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also the most irrelevant.
Neo - Why am I here?
The Architect - Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden assiduously avoided, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here.
Neo - You haven't answered my question.
The Architect - Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others.
*The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Others? What others? How many? Answer me!"*
The Architect - The matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the sixth version.
*Again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Five versions? Three? I've been lied too. This is bullshit."*
Neo: There are only two possible explanations: either no one told me, or no one knows.
The Architect - Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly's systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.
*Once again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "You can't control me! F*ck you! I'm going to kill you! You can't make me do anything!*
Neo - Choice. The problem is choice.
*The scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architect's room*
The Architect - The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is as apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being, thus I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.
Neo - The Oracle.
The Architect - Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99.9% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.
Neo - This is about Zion.
The Architect - You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.
Neo - Bullshit.
*The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Bullshit!"*
The Architect - Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.
*Scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architects room.*
The Architect - The function of the One is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.
Neo - You won't let it happen, you can't. You need human beings to survive.
The Architect - There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However, the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world.
*The Architect presses a button on a pen that he is holding, and images of people from all over the matrix appear on the monitors*
The Architect - It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the one. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific. Vis-a-vis, love.
*Images of Trinity fighting the agent from Neo's dream appear on the monitors*
Neo - Trinity.
The Architect - Apropos, she entered the matrix to save your life at the cost of her own.
Neo - No!
The Architect - Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as both beginning, and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the source, and the salvation of Zion. The door to the left leads back to the matrix, to her, and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you're going to do, don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic, and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple, and obvious truth: she is going to die, and there is nothing that you can do to stop it.
*Neo walks to the door on his left*
The Architect - Humph. Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness.
Neo - If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again.
The Architect - We won't.
End Scene
My aim is to break down the crucial elements of the conversation, piece by piece, to see if there's something that I missed...New post... /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
AYHJA
Enter the Matrix
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AYHJA
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AYHJA
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The First Part...
The first thing I wanted to look over, was the first response the Architect gave Neo...
"The Architect - Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden assiduously avoided, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here. "
I'm no good at math, but the first sentence struck me as meaning something related to the function of a matrix, in mathematical terms...Therefore, it's meaning isn't that clear to me...Coupled with the following sentence, it's supposed mean something, but I haven't quite gotten my finger on it, as I don't understand fully, the function of a matrix in mathematical terms...
My thinking, and this comes in totality from the remainder of the conversation, is that when he says, "Your life is the sum of a remainder" is that the percentage of the matrix that is left for choice, is equal to a specific number...
Like, if you were building something made of wood, and you carved and shaved the pieces to build something, and when you were done, the only way you could complete the project, was to compress your shavings and clippings, and fit it into the project...Those clippings are bits and pieces of the project as a whole, and perfect it, as it is essentially the sum of all parts...What do you guys take from it..?
AYHJA
"The Architect - Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden assiduously avoided, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here. "
I'm no good at math, but the first sentence struck me as meaning something related to the function of a matrix, in mathematical terms...Therefore, it's meaning isn't that clear to me...Coupled with the following sentence, it's supposed mean something, but I haven't quite gotten my finger on it, as I don't understand fully, the function of a matrix in mathematical terms...
My thinking, and this comes in totality from the remainder of the conversation, is that when he says, "Your life is the sum of a remainder" is that the percentage of the matrix that is left for choice, is equal to a specific number...
Like, if you were building something made of wood, and you carved and shaved the pieces to build something, and when you were done, the only way you could complete the project, was to compress your shavings and clippings, and fit it into the project...Those clippings are bits and pieces of the project as a whole, and perfect it, as it is essentially the sum of all parts...What do you guys take from it..?
AYHJA
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x3n
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I always thought the Architect could VERY WELL have been bluffing, to discourage NEO. Anyways, to the point, from my understanding, the Archie refers to this current Matrix as the sixth "version", and he separates them by the rise of each anomaly, in other words (or as Archie says..."ergo") each saviour, each NEO. He is telling NEO that he is nothing more than an anomaly, a mathematical residue from the "choice" code inherent in the program. According to the arcitect, NEO's true purpose is to finish off a cicle, allowing the Matrix to be safely rebooted.
On the other hand, numerical references are scattered ALL over those dammed movies. NEO, for starters, meaning "new" in Latin and also an anagram for ONE, as well as his apt. number in the first movie, 101. I don't know if there's a mathematical meaning behind "matrix" as I simply thought it refered to "womb".
On the other hand, numerical references are scattered ALL over those dammed movies. NEO, for starters, meaning "new" in Latin and also an anagram for ONE, as well as his apt. number in the first movie, 101. I don't know if there's a mathematical meaning behind "matrix" as I simply thought it refered to "womb".
Dude, of course she's gonna dig it...your mom loves the cock
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AYHJA
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A Bit Ahead
Well...
I did want to touch on the fact that the Architect was pulling something out of his ass, but maybe later...
For clarification, that "mathematical residue" that you mentioned, is kind of what I was getting at with the wood project model...But, beyond that, there was obviously something different about Neo...Something that made him very different from the other Neo...
Later on in the conversation, we find that it is supposedly that he is in love, so whatever works...But one of you mathematical prodigy's should take the time to parallel a real matrix, with this conversation...I believe that such a perspective would yeild a greater understanding to the meaning of it...And then there is Agent Smith, who adds something else to the fray...If Neo is indeed the sum of a code, and smith is his equal, then mathematically, the only explanation for smith having the same set of power that Neo does, would be if the Matrix were trying to balance itself out...
But, we find that to a degree, Smith is very much out of control, and not part of the matrix, so, that theory doesn't make much sense...Which is why I decided, that ultimately findout more about a matrix in general, would make more sense...
AYHJA
I did want to touch on the fact that the Architect was pulling something out of his ass, but maybe later...
For clarification, that "mathematical residue" that you mentioned, is kind of what I was getting at with the wood project model...But, beyond that, there was obviously something different about Neo...Something that made him very different from the other Neo...
Later on in the conversation, we find that it is supposedly that he is in love, so whatever works...But one of you mathematical prodigy's should take the time to parallel a real matrix, with this conversation...I believe that such a perspective would yeild a greater understanding to the meaning of it...And then there is Agent Smith, who adds something else to the fray...If Neo is indeed the sum of a code, and smith is his equal, then mathematically, the only explanation for smith having the same set of power that Neo does, would be if the Matrix were trying to balance itself out...
But, we find that to a degree, Smith is very much out of control, and not part of the matrix, so, that theory doesn't make much sense...Which is why I decided, that ultimately findout more about a matrix in general, would make more sense...
AYHJA
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raum
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Don't forget the conversation being had is infact a complete contrast to the conversation he had with the Oracle.
The elements here spoken of are the Oracle and the Architect.
These reveal the two major philosophies behind temples. (of which Ayhja has a little bit of direct knowledge)
The Egyptians has Temples of Architecture. This was taken on by the Hebrews. This Architect was sacred, and a crucial element of the temple. By the measure of its construction, it is sacred.
The Greeks has Temples everywhere, many of them far more beautiful,.. but the only ones that you hear anything about are the Temples of the Oracles, such as the Temple of Delphi, where the Oracle was a menstruating priestess sitting over the top of wafting smoke from a fre of sacred herbs, or the Heliopolan Temple, where ,in their rite of passage, young men were taken to recieve their first experience of manhood...
what ever that was
These represent the illusionary dichotomy of Art and Science. They are the two "halves" of the brain.
Particularly, Neo faces them as ordeal. They are the Keirosphynx and the Apegiosphynx. The voices which speak the riddles of reason and doubt.
They are the Two Angels Metatron and Sandalphon, the Angels who guard the Holy of Holies, Called the Alakhim, and the true secret meaning behind the value of the number 666. They are the paths of light (Oracle), clinging to hope, and the paths of darkness, beyond the altar of Sacrifice (where the three sacrifices are made) at the nucleus of the unknown and neo is humanity, who is the recociler between them, for he can not truly follow either, so he must make his own path which utterly consumes the darkness in the pillar of fire, and yet leaves him unscathed and Adam Qadmon, who must create for himself his mate from the sacrifice.
Thank's for such a great topic. I still have to make my commentary to the Architects speech, and finish my notes to the Oracle interaction.
Vertical,
raum
The elements here spoken of are the Oracle and the Architect.
These reveal the two major philosophies behind temples. (of which Ayhja has a little bit of direct knowledge)
The Egyptians has Temples of Architecture. This was taken on by the Hebrews. This Architect was sacred, and a crucial element of the temple. By the measure of its construction, it is sacred.
The Greeks has Temples everywhere, many of them far more beautiful,.. but the only ones that you hear anything about are the Temples of the Oracles, such as the Temple of Delphi, where the Oracle was a menstruating priestess sitting over the top of wafting smoke from a fre of sacred herbs, or the Heliopolan Temple, where ,in their rite of passage, young men were taken to recieve their first experience of manhood...
what ever that was
These represent the illusionary dichotomy of Art and Science. They are the two "halves" of the brain.
Particularly, Neo faces them as ordeal. They are the Keirosphynx and the Apegiosphynx. The voices which speak the riddles of reason and doubt.
They are the Two Angels Metatron and Sandalphon, the Angels who guard the Holy of Holies, Called the Alakhim, and the true secret meaning behind the value of the number 666. They are the paths of light (Oracle), clinging to hope, and the paths of darkness, beyond the altar of Sacrifice (where the three sacrifices are made) at the nucleus of the unknown and neo is humanity, who is the recociler between them, for he can not truly follow either, so he must make his own path which utterly consumes the darkness in the pillar of fire, and yet leaves him unscathed and Adam Qadmon, who must create for himself his mate from the sacrifice.
Thank's for such a great topic. I still have to make my commentary to the Architects speech, and finish my notes to the Oracle interaction.
Vertical,
raum
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x3n
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Well, I find myself facing a similar problem as I encountered on the Evolution/Creationsim thread we all had. Except this time, religion and mythology seem to be offering clearer ideas, rather than science, in this case, math. I'm not familiar with the operations and/or usage of a mathematical matrix. From my sub-standard understanding, the concept seems to be the same...the equations are grouped and organized within the same field, and these groups can be paired, divided, multiplied, etc...
In the movie, Morpheus says that noone can tell you what the matrix is, especially if you are only an equation within it. Only when you release yourself from the construct, can you begin to understand it's process, and cicles.
In the movie, Morpheus says that noone can tell you what the matrix is, especially if you are only an equation within it. Only when you release yourself from the construct, can you begin to understand it's process, and cicles.
Dude, of course she's gonna dig it...your mom loves the cock
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raum
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that is true 10-01,.. you must break out of the matrix to "know" what it is,.. but you must reenter to communicate it. and it is possible to "show" the matrix to others...
Vertical,
raum
Vertical,
raum
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Aemeth
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Lmao, this site is siiiiiiiiiiiiiick. I thought there was a little "meaning" in the matrix, but never understood it fully...
Yall make some crazy ass points...
But before we continue, I find it neccessary to bring up some background info on the writers of the film.. Who exactly are these dudes? (Wachoski Bros right?)
Yall make some crazy ass points...
But before we continue, I find it neccessary to bring up some background info on the writers of the film.. Who exactly are these dudes? (Wachoski Bros right?)
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x3n
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Well, i'm assuming you don't really need bios on the kids. what you might want to look for are the philosophical sources for the movies. I know some, but I also know that opinions vary, here goes what I've read about:
The basic concept comes from Plato's allegory of The Cave (found in The Republic, in which an individual is chain-bound to a cave wall, only seeing shadows projected for most of his life. eventually his bind is loosened and he gasps at the sight of the "alternate reality" that lies beyond what he thought was "real".
The other basic sources is the old "Brain-in-a-vat" dfiscussion (don't know where it originated, but i know how it goes.
There are also several religious and mystical branches from where they picked ideas, as well as the meanings behind the characters. There was Zen Buddhism, Numerology, Lewis Carroll's writings (believe it or not), there are also numerous biblical references and apparently the be-all end-all book was "Out of Control" by Kevin Kelly (don't ask me, I've never read it).
The basic concept comes from Plato's allegory of The Cave (found in The Republic, in which an individual is chain-bound to a cave wall, only seeing shadows projected for most of his life. eventually his bind is loosened and he gasps at the sight of the "alternate reality" that lies beyond what he thought was "real".
The other basic sources is the old "Brain-in-a-vat" dfiscussion (don't know where it originated, but i know how it goes.
There are also several religious and mystical branches from where they picked ideas, as well as the meanings behind the characters. There was Zen Buddhism, Numerology, Lewis Carroll's writings (believe it or not), there are also numerous biblical references and apparently the be-all end-all book was "Out of Control" by Kevin Kelly (don't ask me, I've never read it).
Dude, of course she's gonna dig it...your mom loves the cock
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AYHJA
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I don't know, Deeje, good question...But, one thing is obvious...Like the others that have written sci fi myesteries, or creators of comic book mythology, they have all read or have studied very intricate and esoteric texts, and derived their ideas...
There are several other points that I'd like to delve into about this movie, but I felt the conversation between Neo and the Architect (very good points about the temple building as worded by adiriel/RAUM) was the pinnacle...
For instance, another thing that I noticed, was that he said Neo was the sixth version of the anomaly...The key, in which Neo used to open the door, had six notches...I'm sure there's another six in there somewhere, which will ultimately bring about the 3 sixes...We'll just let Adiriel roll that one up and smoke it for you... /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
On into Matrix Revolutions, the Devil/Jesus relationship exploited by Neo and Smith becomes more apparent, and more characters start to show their character basis, as the film goes on...
What really funny, haha, is that Matrix Revolutions, only revealed things to people keen enough of mind, to see them...
AYHJA
There are several other points that I'd like to delve into about this movie, but I felt the conversation between Neo and the Architect (very good points about the temple building as worded by adiriel/RAUM) was the pinnacle...
For instance, another thing that I noticed, was that he said Neo was the sixth version of the anomaly...The key, in which Neo used to open the door, had six notches...I'm sure there's another six in there somewhere, which will ultimately bring about the 3 sixes...We'll just let Adiriel roll that one up and smoke it for you... /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
On into Matrix Revolutions, the Devil/Jesus relationship exploited by Neo and Smith becomes more apparent, and more characters start to show their character basis, as the film goes on...
What really funny, haha, is that Matrix Revolutions, only revealed things to people keen enough of mind, to see them...
AYHJA
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