Free will and judgement

[Aemeth]

The more my focus switches to purely spiritual things, the less I care about the physical world. What motivation is there not to indulge in physical things if they do not mean anything? I have a feeling that they may hinder you from reaching the Achad, but how?

[AYHJA]

Deeje, you have the worst thread names EVER, hahaha...

My friend, although I'm sure that you've heard this many times before, and question its relevance to many things, IMO, you aren't old enough to have experienced a..."Proper" motivation...However, your question isn't completely clear to me, and I want to be able to respond properly...

Are you asking, what good is there in enjoying the things that life has to offer, in the forms of vices no less, if they weren't meant to be enjoyed by someone who is spiritually enlightened..? IE, if we are all to aspire to be like Christ, how is it we are to enjoy life, when Christ was pure in all things..?

I think that's what you mean, just being sure, however....

AYHJA

[Aemeth]

basically, how does indulging in sin hold us back in our pursuit of God/truth?

[AYHJA]

I have shed my conventional thoughts about sin, and now believe that the only sin lies within breaking the golden rule...I've also bout shed my mindset of right or wrong, as these things should be determined by someone or something that can ultimately understand them...

IE, what's right for you, isn't always right for you, and definitely may not be right for someone else...So, with that logic, "sin" went pretty much out of the door with me...As mentioned in another thread so beautifully by RAUM, God is love, in more ways than one...To defy the golden rule is to betray his very name in my eyes...Other than that, I think your pursuits are good, whatever they may be, as long as they are in the spirit and context of love...

AYHJA

[raum]

Ayhja asked:

Are you asking, what good is there in enjoying the things that life has to offer, in the forms of vices no less, if they weren't meant to be enjoyed by someone who is spiritually enlightened..? IE, if we are all to aspire to be like Christ, how is it we are to enjoy life, when Christ was pure in all things..?

Christ was Socratic in his genius. look at the evidence. He was not always in god mode... and the bible makes it very clear God was not always pleased with his "son."

If you must know, the value of vices is in the doing of them, the enjoying of them, and the overcoming of them... despite what you hasve been told, you do not cultivate self discipline by never doing anything, but by controlling your intake, and the effect on yourself; which is far greater than you might imagine.


vertical,
raum

[Aemeth]

so you think if Jeshua came back today he wouldnt mind smokin' a little weed if it was in moderation? I aint really followin' this one sorry guys...

[trashtalkr]

QUOTE(AYHJA)
IE, what's right for you, isn't always right for you, and definitely may not be right for someone else
AYHJA
so basically, you don't believe in absolute truths? if you say yes, then that means you absolutely believe that there isn't any absolutes which is a contridiction of terms.

what you said doesn't make any sense. if what's true for me isn't true for you, then we wouldn't get anywhere in life. there would be no laws, morals, or right and wrongs. if you don't believe what i say, then according to what you just said, what's true for me isn't true for me which makes your statement false.

as you can see, this theory (relativism) doesn't hold any weight

[AYHJA]

@trashtalkr (There are two undisputable truths, change and love, other than that, the shit's a toss up that flows to the following...)

Let me help you make sense of it...What is absolutely true to me, does not have to be absolutely true to you...Doesn't seem hard to understand, it is based on individuality, of self and situation...When I said what's right for me, may not be right for me, I'm thinking of a situation that would bring that about...You have a job that pays $$$$ amount of dollars, but is hundreds of miles away from your family, and all you love...The right thing to do, is basically based on so many things, that neither decision can be totally good, ya dig..?

My son, for example, is a bar none excuse to dedicate my life to, in all forms....I would die in a split second, if I knew that he would live on...That is TRUE for me...Is that TRUE for you..? You ready to die for my son at a moments notice..? Of course not, you don't even know him...

What we get out of this life is what we cherish of it, and endure (love and change, ya dig?) throughout it...Since when did relativity not hold weight..? This whole universe is based on those very constructs...Hence, my position on right and wrong...Don't know if you read the bible or not, but there are several instances where key figures were able to keep God's favor, and do things that could very well be considered "wrong"...

If my son is starving, and the only way I had to feed him on this planet was to sneak into a farmers field and take some of his crops, am I wrong..? Would the farmer be wrong, if he caught me in his crops, and shot me..? You see how that relativity thing works..? It's total balance...

There are people that choose to follow the path that was put before them in their hearts...That's what determines what rules I abide by...Those of us that can feel the weight of our soul, know what it is we must do...My getting somewhere in this life, isn't gonna be determined by anyone except me, cause only I know where I want to go...

Marinate,
AYHJA

[trashtalkr]

^^
first of all, no i prolly wouldn't die for your son b/c i don't know/love him (don't get me wrong, i'm sure he's a great guy). that doesn't mean it's not true for me. i believe that you would die in a split second to save him so in a sense, that is true for me that you would do that.

second, i do read the Bible and live by what it says. i believe that it depends on your motives behind what you do. in your example, i think it would be right for you to get some food for your son b/c your motive behind it is good. 1 Samuel 16:7 it says "...but the LORD looks at the heart.†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬? there are many other verses along the same lines but i don't have time to find them all. for me, if someone came into my house and tried to kill/hurt one of my family, i would have no problem killing that person to save my family. i believe that God would look at my heart and see that i didn't kill that person b/c of selfish reasons, but that i killed him b/c i was protecting someone i love. this isn't relativism.

check out this site:
http://www.carm.org/relativism/relativism_refute.htm

[AYHJA]

Isn't the example you used basically a rehash of what I said..?

Is a murder a murder, or is a murder a murder when it is RELATIVE to the individual...According to your theory, you are condemmed either way...It is true that I would die for my son in a moments notice, it is not true that you would...As you said, it doesn't mean that he isn't worthy of dying for, you stated your position, based on what's relative to you...

Einstein's theory of relativity for example, says that a person moving at the speed of light wouldn't know that they were going so fast...To them, it would look like everything else was...This is how social relativity works as well...Per definition verbatim of M-W.com :

Relativism

Main Entry: rel‚·a‚·tiv‚·ism
Pronunciation: 're-l&-ti-"vi-z&m
Function: noun
1a theory that knowledge is relative to the limited nature of the mind and the conditions of knowing b : a view that ethical truths depend on the individuals and groups holding them.

In the bible, you may remember lots of stories...What is the difference between the murder than Cain committed against Abel, and the murder Moses committed against his Egyptian brother..? Is there a difference..? Or is murder murder..?

AYHJA